Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 43

Larisroth · 10/01/09, 7:04 PM

I've been playing around with the simulator and min-maxing the gear and specs. With the set bonuses the way they are and the itemisation of TotC gear, you can put together a set that is very well optimised for unholy dps. Taking this as a baseline and playing around with specs, I get a DW epidemic Glyph of Disease based spec as simulating the best in item-level 245 gear.

Looking at the numbers this is due to the exceptional scaling on the diseases, and the fact that the standard spec ends up losing many ticks due to clipping. Assuming you've got maxed diseases then the basic strategy is pretty simple keep up diseases, desolation and bone shield, and use ScourgeStrike, Blood Boil and Horn to generate runic power and Death Coil to dump it.

I haven't worked through the details of the exact best rotation or priority, but using a priority of
diseases>MaxRP_DC>BoneShield>SS>BloodStrike>DC with a 1/13/57 (shift 2 points in subversion to epidemic)
I get 9281 DPS with the following breakdown (it actually sims better with the short fight option - 9310 DPS)

Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average 
MainHand 473349156 14.2 165476 49.8 36.3 13.9 2860.5  
Ghoul 402378022 12 340199 87 13 0 1182.8  
ScourgeStrike 375573168 11.2 69080 52.4 47.6 0 5436.8  
DeathCoil 362922850 10.9 53264 67.7 32.3 0 6813.7  
BloodPlague 315899139 9.5 119737 63.8 36.2 0 2638.3  
FrostFever 313334861 9.4 119711 67.7 32.3 0 2617.4  
OffHand 271474017 8.1 285936 49.9 36.2 13.9 949.4  
Wandering Plague 225747219 6.8 85942 100 0 0 2626.7  
Gargoyle 169961570 5.1 35341 87.2 12.8 0 4809.2  
Necrosis 148955102 4.5 451412 100 0 0 330  
BloodCakedBlade 119281935 3.6 136003 100 0 0 877.1  
BloodStrike 87073358 2.6 36186 58.7 41.3 0 2406.3  
UnholyBlight 72589246 2.2 53264 100 0 0 1362.8  
IcyTouch 1396949  0 354 67.2 32.8 0 3946.2  
PlagueStrike 1164772  0 425 59.1 40.9 0 2740.6  
Horn 0  0 16853 100 0 0 0  
Pestilence 0  0 24191 100 0 0 0  
BoneShield 0  0 5942 100 0 0 0  
BloodTap 0  0 2344 100 0 0 0  
DPS 9281 
Total Damage 3341.1m in 100h 
Threat Per Second 4660 
Generated in 555s 
Template: disease 
Priority: disease 
Presence: Blood  
Sigil: Virulence  
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader / FallenCrusader 
Pet Calculation: True

Whereas using a 20 second PS IT SS BS BB DC DC PS IT SS BB BB DC DC rotation with the standard 3/13/55
I get 9072 DPS

Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average 
MainHand 470221372 14.4 165720 50 36.3 13.8 2837.4  
DeathCoil 406161921 12.4 59736 67.7 32.3 0 6799.3  
Ghoul 400410584 12.3 340199 87 13 0 1177  
OffHand 269323656 8.2 285690 49.8 36.2 14 942.7  
BloodPlague 239056705 7.3 98141 63.5 36.5 0 2435.8  
FrostFever 230960645 7.1 98150 67.7 32.3 0 2353.1  
ScourgeStrike 176574685 5.4 32216 48.4 51.6 0 5481  
Gargoyle 173439580 5.3 36064 87 13 0 4809.2  
Wandering Plague 171114452 5.2 71443 100 0 0 2395.1  
Necrosis 147902867 4.5 451410 100 0 0 327.6  
Blood Boil 133734718 4.1 42955 67.8 32.2 0 3113.4  
IcyTouch 120994195 3.7 32217 68.2 31.8 0 3755.6  
BloodCakedBlade 118939907 3.6 136002 100 0 0 874.5  
PlagueStrike 88178969 2.7 32217 57.5 42.5 0 2737  
UnholyBlight 81237525 2.5 59736 100 0 0 1359.9  
BloodStrike 37732840 1.2 16108 54.5 45.5 0 2342.5  
Horn 0  0 4230 100 0 0 0  
BoneShield 0  0 5369 100 0 0 0  
BloodTap 0  0 5275 100 0 0 0  
DPS 9072 
Total Damage 3265.98m in 100h 
Threat Per Second 4528 
Generated in 202s 
Template: unholyDW 
Rotation: unholyDW 
Presence: Blood  
Sigil: Virulence  
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader / FallenCrusader 
Pet Calculation: True

The stats for this was from a gear set i put together of ilevel 245 with a few tweaks. but i don't think it's unrealistic

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<character>
	<stat>
		<Strength>2453</Strength>
		<Agility>156</Agility>
		<Intel>58</Intel>
		<Armor>14696</Armor>
		<AttackPower>671</AttackPower>
		<HitRating>334</HitRating>
		<CritRating>842</CritRating>
		<HasteRating>349</HasteRating>
		<ArmorPenetrationRating>199</ArmorPenetrationRating>
		<ExpertiseRating>177</ExpertiseRating>
	</stat>
	<weapon>
		<count>2</count>
		<mainhand>
			<dps>196.5</dps>
			<speed>2.6</speed>
		</mainhand>
		<offhand>
			<dps>196.5</dps>
			<speed>1.5</speed>
		</offhand>
	</weapon>
	<EP><base>50</base></EP>
	<Set>
		<T72PDPS>0</T72PDPS>
		<T74PDPS>0</T74PDPS>
		<T82PDPS>0</T82PDPS>
		<T84PDPS>0</T84PDPS>
		<T92PDPS>1</T92PDPS>
		<T94PDPS>1</T94PDPS>
		<T72PTNK>0</T72PTNK>
		<T74PTNK>0</T74PTNK>
		<T82PTNK>0</T82PTNK>
		<T84PTNK>0</T84PTNK>
	</Set>
	<ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>1</ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>
	<trinket>
		<MjolnirRunestone>0</MjolnirRunestone>
		<GrimToll>0</GrimToll>
		<BitterAnguish>0</BitterAnguish>
		<Mirror>0</Mirror>
		<Greatness>0</Greatness>
		<DCDeath>0</DCDeath>
		<Victory>0</Victory>
		<Necromantic>0</Necromantic>
		<Bandit>0</Bandit>
		<Pyrite>0</Pyrite>
		<DarkMatter>0</DarkMatter>
		<OldGod>0</OldGod>
		<Comet>0</Comet>
		<DeathChoice>1</DeathChoice>
        <DeathChoiceHeroic>0</DeathChoiceHeroic>
	</trinket>
</character>

With this build the glyph of dark disease and glyph of the ghoul simulate near each other in value and the new icy touch glyph comes out to be about 1.5 times better.

A quick EP of the main stats:

EP:50 | AttackPower | 1 
EP:50 | Strength | 3.06 
EP:50 | CritRating | 2.58 
EP:50 | HasteRating | 2.58 
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 1.15 
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 1.45

I like this build better because it's less dependent on haste and less latency sensitive. the play-style should be a lot freer, and of course the multi-target damage will be better.

Consider · 10/01/09, 7:13 PM

There's something way off about your numbers. You don't have 2453 str in BiS. That's (way) too high. Even if you did have that much, you wouldn't have that much AP (since that much str guarantees you aren't using an agi piece of some sort). Similarly, your 842 crit seems (way) too low. Your ArP is too high. Etc. That's not BiS. That's better, actually, but completely unrealistic.

Also, if that's meant to be a BiS list, why is the heroic Death's Choice not ticked off? If you're not counting 258 gear (then there's no chance of getting the aforementioned 2453 str, but that's beside the point), then there should be Greatness marked. Or Dark Matter/Comet. One of the three. As it is, you only have one trinket.

All in all, I'm a bit skeptical of your gear set being used, which doesn't necessarily negate your conclusion(s), but still. Yes, the new GoIT will obviously increase the value of GoD. Considering GoD was already pretty close to being competitive, it might push it over the top, drawbacks aside. Especially for DWing.

Until a 3.3.0 version of the sim comes out, it's a bit difficult to see how GoD specs will turn out with the new glyph. It's not the type of thing which can be done by hand (at least, I don't think I can, anyways. Someone else probably could). It will probably have a lot of potential, however.

Edit: Also, a note - the new GoIT is actually a 2 dps loss (in BiS gear) as opposed to the old one. Minor, not noticeable, and well worth the large boost to AoE, but regardless, figured I would mention it.

Larisroth · 10/01/09, 8:48 PM

Originally Posted by Consider

There's something way off about your numbers. You don't have 2453 str in BiS. That's (way) too high. Even if you did have that much, you wouldn't have that much AP (since that much str guarantees you aren't using an agi piece of some sort). Similarly, your 842 crit seems (way) too low. Your ArP is too high. Etc. That's not BiS. That's better, actually, but completely unrealistic.

Also, if that's meant to be a BiS list, why is the heroic Death's Choice not ticked off? If you're not counting 258 gear (then there's no chance of getting the aforementioned 2453 str, but that's beside the point), then there should be Greatness marked. Or Dark Matter/Comet. One of the three. As it is, you only have one trinket.

All in all, I'm a bit skeptical of your gear set being used, which doesn't necessarily negate your conclusion(s), but still. Yes, the new GoIT will obviously increase the value of GoD. Considering GoD was already pretty close to being competitive, it might push it over the top, drawbacks aside. Especially for DWing.

Yeah it looks like my numbers were off a bit. I got most of the stats directly from a Rawr gear-set. It seems to scew up the Strength majorly. I've switched to a char-dev profile. Using ilevel 245 gear, with greatness and gemming as a BS/JC mostly for strength I end up with 1871 strength.

The AP was high because I was looking at the effect of using an AP trinket rather than Greatness due to not having the latter. Anyway if you assume Darkness instead then the AP comes out at 371 in this set.

I had extra ArPen due to the fact that for a couple of slots I'd either over-cap expertise as an Orc.

Yes the crit rating seems low, I was typically selecting (and gemming) for haste rating over it.

Anyway I get a tweaked set coming out as

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<character>
	<stat>
		<Strength>1871</Strength>
		<Agility>272</Agility>
		<Intel>58</Intel>
		<Armor>14696</Armor>
		<AttackPower>371</AttackPower>
		<HitRating>334</HitRating>
		<CritRating>756</CritRating>
		<HasteRating>391</HasteRating>
		<ArmorPenetrationRating>117</ArmorPenetrationRating>
		<ExpertiseRating>177</ExpertiseRating>
	</stat>
	<weapon>
		<count>2</count>
		<mainhand>
			<dps>196.5</dps>
			<speed>2.6</speed>
		</mainhand>
		<offhand>
			<dps>196.5</dps>
			<speed>2.6</speed>
		</offhand>
	</weapon>
	<EP><base>50</base></EP>
	<Set>
		<T72PDPS>0</T72PDPS>
		<T74PDPS>0</T74PDPS>
		<T82PDPS>0</T82PDPS>
		<T84PDPS>0</T84PDPS>
		<T92PDPS>1</T92PDPS>
		<T94PDPS>1</T94PDPS>
		<T72PTNK>0</T72PTNK>
		<T74PTNK>0</T74PTNK>
		<T82PTNK>0</T82PTNK>
		<T84PTNK>0</T84PTNK>
	</Set>
	<ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>1</ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>
	<trinket>
		<MjolnirRunestone>0</MjolnirRunestone>
		<GrimToll>0</GrimToll>
		<BitterAnguish>0</BitterAnguish>
		<Mirror>0</Mirror>
		<Greatness>1</Greatness>
		<DCDeath>0</DCDeath>
		<Victory>0</Victory>
		<Necromantic>0</Necromantic>
		<Bandit>0</Bandit>
		<Pyrite>0</Pyrite>
		<DarkMatter>0</DarkMatter>
		<OldGod>0</OldGod>
		<Comet>0</Comet>
		<DeathChoice>1</DeathChoice>
        <DeathChoiceHeroic>0</DeathChoiceHeroic>
	</trinket>
</character>

I hope the stats seem more reasonable.

Running a quick sim still comes out with the GoD spec with a 200-300dps lead. I think that is mostly due to the fact that I run with oceanic latency, so used latency of 250ms. In any case I think the GoD build is a lot more forgiving of latency, movement, lower haste so I'll give it a go next time. It's actual dps is probably higher than what I simmed due to the fact that I had no way of specifying using Blood Strike for desolation only and blood boil at other times.

Ryûuk · 10/01/09, 9:25 PM

Originally Posted by Larisroth

Running a quick sim still comes out with the GoD spec with a 200-300dps lead. I think that is mostly due to the fact that I run with oceanic latency, so used latency of 250ms. In any case I think the GoD build is a lot more forgiving of latency, movement, lower haste so I'll give it a go next time. It's actual dps is probably higher than what I simmed due to the fact that I had no way of specifying using Blood Strike for desolation only and blood boil at other times.

What rotation are you using to get those numbers? I tried setting up a rotation in the simulator but for some reason it ended up spamming IT everywhere. Also, if your sim is correct and the GoD spec is a 200-300 DPS lead then im looking forward to 3.3 as I like the GoD specs alot more than I do the current spam specs.

Royksopp · 10/01/09, 10:20 PM

Is there a reason why our rotations on the first page are designed with IT before PS? We lose out on Rage of Rivendare for the initial hit of IT.

It is probably a minuscule loss of DPS, but I wanted to ask.

Umph · 10/01/09, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Royksopp

Is there a reason why our rotations on the first page are designed with IT before PS? We lose out on Rage of Rivendare for the initial hit of IT.

It is probably a minuscule loss of DPS, but I wanted to ask.

What do you do as you run towards a boss as an encounter starts?

Larisroth · 10/01/09, 10:40 PM

Despite the excellent work that has been going in to the simulator, it's still not ideal for examining unholy builds.
For the Epidemic-less builds you have to use a rotation so you overwrite the diseases at approximately the right time, which means you can't easily add-in prioritising DC over the blood rune moves.

For the GoD, epidemic based build, you have to use the priority system in the simulator or it won't maximise your diseases properly. As I explained above this means you can't use blood-boil over using blood-strike when it makes sense to do so. The rotation you would use in practice is actually pretty simple once you have your diseases rolling, it's more-or-less SS - SS - Pest (filler) // SS - SS - BS (filler)

where in the filler sections you dump your RP and use your remaining blood rune. You'd also want to keep up bone shield and use horn if you have a free global cooldown. The whole 20 second rotation uses two less global cooldowns. If you're dual-wielding then Blood Boil will hit harder than Blood Strike, but I suspect the T9 2 piece bonus will probably be worth putting up if it's not up or on cooldown instead.

Searix · 10/02/09, 6:31 AM

My quick napkin math shows that weaving in DnD on multiple trinket/sigil/2p/Crusader procs (at least 4 of them) gives enough (more than enough?) AP for DnD to be used on single target situations for additonal dps. A nice bit of extra dps if i calculated it correctly.

Bloody_sorcerer · 10/02/09, 9:37 AM

Originally Posted by Larisroth

Yeah it looks like my numbers were off a bit. I got most of the stats directly from a Rawr gear-set. It seems to scew up the Strength majorly. I've switched to a char-dev profile. Using ilevel 245 gear, with greatness and gemming as a BS/JC mostly for strength I end up with 1871 strength.

That's because rawr is displaying average stats, so things like Fallen Crusader and trinket procs are already taken into account. If the ability to export character stats from rawr to something the simulator can use (much like rawr.enhancement and the enhsim) is something people would like, I can look into incorporating it.

Meygaera · 10/02/09, 1:25 PM

Is the IT PS SS BS BS DC DC rotation literally set in stone? Because sometimes I manage to get an extra SS in place of the initial IT PS and then reapply diseases with my next available U/F runes. I noticed that using Unholy priority on the simulator will do this often and yields higher dps than using the stricter rotation.

Kaejin · 10/02/09, 2:13 PM

I think the idea of keeping the rotations to ten seconds and reapplying diseases at the same point is for RP generation, in which case IT & PS > SS. However, come the change to IT, that method will generate 10 less RP and will probably promote more SS in the rotation.

I'm not a regular unholy DK (I usually only use it on Faction Champs and sometimes on Twins if I forget to change again), but that's my understanding of how things work.

• frmorrison · 10/02/09, 3:00 PM

Originally Posted by Meygaera

Is the IT PS SS BS BS DC DC rotation literally set in stone?

It is set in stone for now. Perhaps in 3.3 when IT glyph gets nerfed it will change. There will be a few months until then when people will run the numbers to see what is the best dps then, I suspect the 10 second rotation will remain.

Umph · 10/02/09, 6:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bloody_sorcerer

That's because rawr is displaying average stats, so things like Fallen Crusader and trinket procs are already taken into account. If the ability to export character stats from rawr to something the simulator can use (much like rawr.enhancement and the enhsim) is something people would like, I can look into incorporating it.

That would be awesome, it's a bit cumbersome at the moment to have to manually edit stat values to try new pieces of gear.

Sealpup · 10/02/09, 6:32 PM

Originally Posted by Meygaera

Is the IT PS SS BS BS DC DC rotation literally set in stone? Because sometimes I manage to get an extra SS in place of the initial IT PS and then reapply diseases with my next available U/F runes. I noticed that using Unholy priority on the simulator will do this often and yields higher dps than using the stricter rotation.

I was wondering about this too, glad someone else has noticed. After the first few IT PS SS, it seems there are times when SS is possible before IT PS because the diseases still have a fair way to go. I have tried both methods but with so many variables it is difficult to see DPS difference in raids. Might someone shed some light on this?

Fargom · 10/02/09, 7:39 PM

Originally Posted by Sealpup

I was wondering about this too, glad someone else has noticed. After the first few IT PS SS, it seems there are times when SS is possible before IT PS because the diseases still have a fair way to go. I have tried both methods but with so many variables it is difficult to see DPS difference in raids. Might someone shed some light on this?

Aren't you still performing the same number of each attacks in a certain time period? You are just swappiong a SS and an IT/PS. Really can't see how this would make much of a difference at all dps wise since the diseases aren't falling off.

2+1+2 = 5
1+2+2 = 5