Item - Death Knight T10 DPS Relic (Obliterate, Scourge Strike, Death Strike) - Your Obliterate, Scourge Strike, and Death Strike abilities grants 73 Strength for 15 sec. Stacks up to 3 times. (Old - Stacked up to 5 Times)
I get approximately 85% uptime on the sigil of virulence in my parses, and that will likely increase a bit in 3.3 with an additional scourge strike used per cycle.
The new sigil would have to have over 78% uptime of 3 stacks to beat the old one. It's a guaranteed proc, so obviously it will be worthwhile in sustained damage encounters, but the stacks are likely to drop off with a 15s duration in movement fights. That ramp-up time is a killer.
I've spent a little time looking at the new stat weights added to the OP, and wonder what gear selections we'll need to change on patch day to be optimal for ICC.
With spell hit rating and haste both dropping below armor pen, are there any items which we should be looking to pick up with a view to equipping when 3.3 goes live?
I've always used the Alliance Unholy BiS gearlist from the optimal gearing thread: http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t55505-o...ng_bis_thread/ (Mainly because i consider the spellhit to be a big thing to max dps for anub25hc) - but there are things like the [Chestplate of the Frostborn Hero] which would seem to fall behind when the 3.3 proposed weights go live. It has both hit and haste on it, while the craftable chest by comparison goes up in value quite considerably: [Titanium Razorplate]
I guess what i'm trying to say is, we've ignored armor pen for a long while and now its going to be one of our better off-stats. Has anyone put anymore work into an optimal patch-day gearset from items obtainable right now?
Assuming Blizzard doesn't drastically change anything, all three specs should be using the same gear in 3.3, besides the fact that Frost will still use 1handed weapons. This means (after hit and exp cap) you will want gear with crit and armor pen on it.
Edit: I guess you wouldn't be using the current BiS Blood set.
Running the latest version of DK Optimize with the weights found in the beginning of the thread for 3.3, I came up with the following for 25 hard, 25, 10 hard, 10 current gear:
It should be noted I ran this with etched and inscribed ametrines, the bold ruby, and a nightmare tear, with jewelcrafting and blacksmithing as professions, and as an alliance set with the draenei hit aura. Not forcing the hit or expertise cap, as a gnome.
The following here is with 25, 10 hard, and 10 gear available:
I thought there were different sets when forcing the expertise cap, but I just realized they are identical and I was looking at the difference between having 25 hard gear.
Race change is now a reality. At one point, it was commonly agreed that Orc was the best race for an Unholy DPS Death Knight, due to its increased pet damage, expertise with our most common weapon, and AP boost off the GCD that we could easily combine with Gargoyle and diseases. Is this still true? Is Orc the clear winner in terms of DPS gain?
Race change is now a reality. At one point, it was commonly agreed that Orc was the best race for an Unholy DPS Death Knight, due to its increased pet damage, expertise with our most common weapon, and AP boost off the GCD that we could easily combine with Gargoyle and diseases. Is this still true? Is Orc the clear winner in terms of DPS gain?
You answered your own question, no other Horde race can touch The Master Race for DKs.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
First of all I have read your forums for over a year and thank you for all the help you have given me and all other WoW noobs who do not post.
My question:
I am trying unholy and am DW running the 3/13/55 spec. In the OP the rotation is listed as:
PS, IT, BS, BS, SS, DC, HW, SS, DC, SS, DC.
I have tried diligently and cannot make this rotation work as my diseases fall off and my final SS I am waiting for a rune to CD.
Did I get my signals crossed in what the rotation should be. Instead I am using:
IT, PS, SS, BS, BS, DC, DC
IT, PS, SS, BS, BS, DC, DC - I thought maybe BB instead of the last BS but it seems lacking in DPS on single target.
Specc'd as I am which rotation should I be using ? Thanks again and incidentally I got the above spec and rotation from a lengthy post comparing Unholy DPS options.
First of all I have read your forums for over a year and thank you for all the help you have given me and all other WoW noobs who do not post.
My question:
I am trying unholy and am DW running the 3/13/55 spec. In the OP the rotation is listed as:
PS, IT, BS, BS, SS, DC, HW, SS, DC, SS, DC.
I have tried diligently and cannot make this rotation work as my diseases fall off and my final SS I am waiting for a rune to CD.
Did I get my signals crossed in what the rotation should be. Instead I am using:
IT, PS, SS, BS, BS, DC, DC
IT, PS, SS, BS, BS, DC, DC - I thought maybe BB instead of the last BS but it seems lacking in DPS on single target.
Specc'd as I am which rotation should I be using ? Thanks again and incidentally I got the above spec and rotation from a lengthy post comparing Unholy DPS options.
Like a lot of guys, first time poster, long time reader...
With the race change i've switch to Orc, previously someone says to remove the GotG, but with the +5% damage from pet of Orc (and the massive dps loss if your pet dies) is it really a good thing to replace it with another glyph ? (only for Orc).
im getting ready for 3.3 now respeccing to 3/13/55 and thinking alot about my future armour upgrades and weapon's etc but 1 thing in this thread and indeed the dw thread is missing,what is the best speed for unh 3.3 off-hand....?
i have the slow 196 mh from an and also atm have the fast axe 196 from jaraxxus,i also have the grinder 178,what im asking is oh 3.3 fast or slow and will for instance the slow 178 be better than the fast 196 (as for frost slow/slow) for any reason...?
im in no way suggesting that we NEED a slow oh same as frost for a tot like attack im mearly asking if any one has done any testing into the 2 speeds or is it just a straight choice of the highest dps weapon...?
im getting ready for 3.3 now respeccing to 3/13/55 and thinking alot about my future armour upgrades and weapon's etc but 1 thing in this thread and indeed the dw thread is missing,what is the best speed for unh 3.3 off-hand....?
i have the slow 196 mh from an and also atm have the fast axe 196 from jaraxxus,i also have the grinder 178,what im asking is oh 3.3 fast or slow and will for instance the slow 178 be better than the fast 196 (as for frost slow/slow) for any reason...?
im in no way suggesting that we NEED a slow oh same as frost for a tot like attack im mearly asking if any one has done any testing into the 2 speeds or is it just a straight choice of the highest dps weapon...?
Like a lot of guys, first time poster, long time reader...
With the race change i've switch to Orc, previously someone says to remove the GotG, but with the +5% damage from pet of Orc (and the massive dps loss if your pet dies) is it really a good thing to replace it with another glyph ? (only for Orc).
PS: Sorry for my english, i'm french ^^
The current best glyphs in the OP include GotG for live and 3.3. Even if there was an added glyph later, I really like GotG because I like ignoring my pet's health because it has so much. Even with 90% reduction (compared to 70% now, there is a ton of AoE damage hitting pets).
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
The increase in the value of expertise seems to make sense. For starters, there will be one more BS instead of pestilence, but the real kicker to me seems to be that we will be much more reliant on PS not being dodged to keep up Blood Plague and Rage of Rivendare without slowing down our rotation.
As for haste dropping like a rock, I think the key is how tight the rotation is. I haven't been playing around on the PTR, but I remember the old SS w/ reaping rotations, and back then I often had times where I was waiting for rune cooldowns and didn't have the runic power to do anything in the meantime. With our current rotation, I'm always pushing buttons, every global cooldown. That means that more haste is actually speeding up your yellow damge as well, to a certain extent, since it's reducing the GCD of IT and DC at the very least. When you have to wait for runes to cooldown, however, you aren't actually speeding up yellow damage, you're just making it more frontloaded.
It's the same reason an instacast HOTing druid still likes to stack haste while a ret pally doesn't much care for it. A HoTing druid is constantly spamming abilities so lowered GCD means something. A ret, on the other hand, has spells that get reduced too, but if they are sitting there waiting for ability cooldowns, that reduced GCD doesn't mean anything for yellow damage, and the haste to auto-attack doesn't mean much, even with seal damage (which is much more than necrosis).
Why has GoD been discredited for single targets? I haven't had any chance to test GoD in a raid setting in 3.3, but if they stopped the ability to roll buffs with GoD, then I can see why we'd only use it for AE.
Why has GoD been discredited for single targets? I haven't had any chance to test GoD in a raid setting in 3.3, but if they stopped the ability to roll buffs with GoD, then I can see why we'd only use it for AE.
Thanks for your time!
It requires you to be able to roll your diseases for at least 4 minutes (assuming fully buffed diseases) for GoD to beat GotG. If a fight has any movement that makes your diseases drop in that period, the GoD is a DPS loss. In addition, it increases the likelihood of ghoul death, which is a huge DPS loss. Even with the buffed NotD, it's a risky HP loss.
I did some sims to try and work out exactly why the GoD was a loss, as you can often get max diseases up in a couple of rune rotations. One thing that I observed is that the average strike damage was down by up to 7% compared to a non-GoD build. The main reason for this I found for this was that in the GoD rotation you make 1 less strike per 20 second rotation (including normal attacks you make 14 or so strikes in this time without GoD), which lowers your proc chances and can mean a less uptime. With fallen crusader and 2 proc trinkets that can add up to a noticeably lower average attack power. I didn't even consider 2 piece t9.
As an interesting aside, is it possible to roll diseases by swapping targets if you don't have GoD?
I did some sims to try and work out exactly why the GoD was a loss, as you can often get max diseases up in a couple of rune rotations. One thing that I observed is that the average strike damage was down by up to 7% compared to a non-GoD build. The main reason for this I found for this was that in the GoD rotation you make 1 less strike per 20 second rotation (including normal attacks you make 14 or so strikes in this time without GoD), which lowers your proc chances and can mean a less uptime. With fallen crusader and 2 proc trinkets that can add up to a noticeably lower average attack power. I didn't even consider 2 piece t9.
As an interesting aside, is it possible to roll diseases by swapping targets if you don't have GoD?
Yes, it is.. But that of course requires a second target that actually lives long enough to use it on as well as managing the diseases on both of them. The issue next patch is we'd lose not only BS, but also SS every rotation because of needing the runes to use Pest in the first place. The possible extra power to diseases would certainly not be worth losing a BS+SS.
Yes, it is.. But that of course requires a second target that actually lives long enough to use it on as well as managing the diseases on both of them. The issue next patch is we'd lose not only BS, but also SS every rotation because of needing the runes to use Pest in the first place. The possible extra power to diseases would certainly not be worth losing a BS+SS.
Pestilence also converts Blood runes to Death runes via Reaping.
Pestilence also converts Blood runes to Death runes via Reaping.
Yes, I just realized it's a BS and not SS given the duration of diseases. Even so, how often would we be able to use the mechanic to its full potential and get truly rewarding numbers for it? Not often at all.
I've gone through the Icecrown boss list to guess the usefulness of GoD.
Lord Marrowgar
30s pauses and target switching.
Lady Deathwhisper
Lots of target switching.
The Deathbringer
?
Gunship Battle
Lots of target switching.
Festergut
5-10s pauses.
Rotface
Tank and spank.
Professor Putricide
?
Blood Prince Council
At least three different targets.
Queen Lana'thel
Most likely longer pauses.
Valithiria Dreamwalker
Many small adds.
Sindragosa
Target switching.
Lich King
Certainly won't be tank and spank.
I won't take it. There are only a few bosses where you can roll the diseases and the aoe heavier encounter are more about bursting mobs or objects down. An almost invincible pet is better.
Yes, I just realized it's a BS and not SS given the duration of diseases. Even so, how often would we be able to use the mechanic to its full potential and get truly rewarding numbers for it? Not often at all.
Well actually you would be losing a SS (or at least half a SS) as you'd have to pest twice every 20 seconds on one target or the other, and we have to keep up desolation every 20 seconds. The reason I ask is because while there are fights where you could conceivably be dpsing a single target for 400 seconds or so, all these fights pretty much have at least the occasional adds. I guess I was just wondering if we could use the poor-mans GoD under certain circumstances to roll diseases.
Using the set I linked to in my last post but turning off all set bonuses and trinket procs, and disabling all glyphs, I can get some ball park average numbers for the strikes, and then calculate some dps ball parks for glyphs.
SS hits for 12305.8, BS for 3666.4, PS for 4145.3, IT for 3105.5.
So the margin for a SS over IT and PS is 5955.0,
Frost Fever dps (inc WP) was 657.5,
so the glyph of icy touch is worth 131.5 dps.
Death Coil DPS (inc UB) was 787.9,
so the glyph of dark death is worth 118.2 dps.
Ghoul DPS without glyph was 791.1, and with glyph was 920.1,
so the glpyh of the ghoul is worth 129.0 dps.
Glyph of Scourge Strike is rather poor at the moment. It gives diseases with a duration of 30 seconds and so saves us only one application of diseases every minute,
so the glyph is worth 99.25 dps, at a first estimate.
If instead it boosted our diseases to 41 or 42 seconds it would save 1.5 reapplications a minute and be up there with the other glyphs at 148.9 dps. This seems pretty much where it should be to me. 39 seconds would be a possibility.
If it gave us rolling diseases it would give us an extra SS every 20 seconds, and be worth 297.75 dps without considering the rolling. With the glyph extending duration by 3 seconds and at 5 SS every 20 seconds you can't actually extend it infinitely, in fact after 60 seconds, you'd have 3 seconds left on the timers, and the diseases would vanish about the end of that cycle.
The above analysis is actually slightly flawed, because you have to consider how many ticks land before refresh and whether your blood plague gets rage of rivendare applied to it. If you could actually reapply the diseases the instant after they fall, then you gain a tick of the diseases, but blood plague doesn't get the 10% from rage of rivendare applied to it (this is actually worth it, an extra tick of the two diseases outweighs one doing 10% less damage, if you've got less than 20 ticks or so). Doing that perfectly is actually worth about 78 dps in this simple setup without glyphs or set bonuses and almost 100 dps with 4t9 and GoIT.
The margin reapplying using a Pest is 2288.6.
so the glyph of disease is worth 114.4 dps, but of course that doesn't consider the effect of rolling the diseases.
The margin reapplying using 2xPest is -1377.8.
so the poor-man's GoD has negative worth at -68.9 dps. If there's an internal cooldown on wandering plague then you'd further lose out due to missing WP ticks.
This is a spell from the Dragon boss in ICC:
Frost Aura Deals 4500 Frost damage to all nearby enemies every 3.0 sec.
So the pet will take 90% less damage from that, however it is just an example of a lot of AoE damage, so I would use GotG to give more time for the pet to heal itself from LotP and JoL.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
GotG wouldn't really give the ghoul more time to heal itself, just let it heal itself for more. It would still be getting damage at a rate of 450 damager every two seconds. The ghoul, at a base attack speed of 2.0 and not taking into account Claw, will heal 2% of it's health every 2 seconds, which should amount to over half of what Frost Aura deals without taking resistances into account.
I don't think a small amount of damage like that is going to end up being the death of non GotG ghouls, especially if you end up with a shaman in your group for healing stream and other incidental heals. Even Tail Smashes should be dealing relatively little damage to them.
Blistering Cold could take out chunks of 3500 HP at a time and would be be biggest burst damage the ghoul sees the whole fight assuming you let it eat the damage.
I don't see anything that might outright kill the ghoul if it didn't have that extra 40% stamina from GotG. In a fight like Sindragosa it'll need heals at some point if it's going to survive the whole fight, and while I don't think the extra stam from GotG is a bad thing or isn't nice, I think it is being somewhat over-valued.
10/28/09, 7:33 AM
