I still think people are not corectly reading that mapkin math I made.

Every 20sec GoD looses BS+24RP. Is it possible for GoD benefits to close this gap? That's the goal I'm trying to argue.

What that napkin math showed is that every 20sec GoD could have a small dps loss (50dps) or a gain.

Gain or no-gain depends on how many procs the diseases are rolling with. 2-3 procs will make the mentioned dps loss, however more procs for rolling diseases, or more time (which is a given for most bosses), will close that gap.
This loss will manifest itself in a bigger value only on quick fights where diseases can't be set up and rolled for a short while and where there's no aoe damage going on and no aoe healing going on. In previous posts this has been shown to be nearly a non-issue.

Regarding WP. I did say I don't know how to model it, so help me there. Remember there's also one bonus tick every 10second (aprox.), that evens out a bit the lost ticks because of ICD (if there are any ticks lost on primary target?). Remember that these WP procs will also deal bigger damage.

There's also one free gcd every 10sec which everyone undervalues. If we fill even some of those gcds with a DC, it's a substantial dps gain. And a much bigger dps gain than if we shoot off aditional DCs from short unholy rotation (while diseases are on target). I compared 20sec bits of both rotations, and short rotation is getting prolonged in a sense, so with extra DCs it would go to 13sec, and then we take 7secs more from the other rune set (since we're going for 20sec intervals).

There is also the obvious bonus to aoe damage, because of Epidemic (which is also in latest build by Consider), 5/5 BA, stronger diseases and stronger WP ticks. There's no loss in WP on aoe (even if there was on single target).

I remember that recently Consider was talking how the preferred build would swap some talents for more aoe damage in exchange for single target dps. At the time everyone was fine with that, now when this build does the same, only thing that gets commented on is an average 50dps lost (even if it's 100dps lost it is still with an empty gcd every 10sec - filling it every third time with a DC is worth 165dps).

I'm not sure I understand you correctly. How does GoD gain one extra tick every 30sec?

PS at time=0, then BP ticks will happen at 3, 6, 9, (12-but new ps on 10,5 mark so clipped).
IT at t=1.5sec, FF ticks at 4.5, 7.5, 10.5

That would make a total of 6 ticks in 10 seconds and 12 in 20sec epidemic rotation. GoD rotation will have the same ticks (as that's how glyph works), plus an extra tick every time standard rotation clips.

Is this correct: GoD gains 1 extra tick every 10 seconds when compared to short standard rotation, and 1 extra tick every 20 seconds when compared to standard rotation with epidemic?

Perhaps I should have been clearer; GoD gets an extra tick of each disease every 30s, so that's really two extra disease ticks, or one bonus tick of FF and one of BP.

GoD doesn't get an extra tick every time regular rotation clips, because you're not clipping an entire disease tick by refreshing it early. As you noted, non-epidemic rotation gets three ticks of each disease every 10 seconds (assuming you have enough haste to fit it in 10 seconds, which may not be a given, so you might gain slightly less). Epidemic rotation gets six ticks every 20 seconds (i.e. three per 10 seconds)--one BP at 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18 and then it's refreshed at 20s before the seventh tick happens. Same for FF--4.5, 7.5, 10.5, 13.5, 16.5, 19.5, then it's refreshed at 21.5 before the seventh tick. With GoD, assuming you don't allow diseases to drop, you simply get one tick every three seconds forever. So in any 30 second period, a tight non-epidemic rotation gets nine ticks, a standard epidemic rotation gets nine ticks, and a GoD rotation gets 10 ticks.

The entire extra GCD thing is hard to touch measure, but if you can make use of them (which you probably can. Getting 120 RP a minute from Revitalize + AMS is probably about average, which is enough to fill a gcd every 20 seconds. Getting 240 RP a minute, which would be enough to fill a gcd every 10 seconds, is definitely pushing it, unless you raid with half a dozen resto druids), you are best off simply getting Epidemic, as recent math has shown. Where GoD may be a 50 dps loss, but an AoE gain and a gcd per 10 second gain, Epidemic is a 0 dps loss (or a minor one. In BiS gear it was a 6 dps gain. In my gear, it did identical dps. In the 232 set I use for testing things, it was about a 10 dps loss), provides half of the AoE gain given by GoD (that Blood Boil every 10 seconds), and an extra gcd every 10 seconds (one every 20 thanks to Epidemic, another every ~20 seconds thanks to less RP produced).

So as far as the GCD argument goes, unless you can use beyond the 2 per 20 Epidemic gains you (which would be difficult), it's not really a factor in comparing GoD, and not a reason to spec it. Which isn't to say there aren't other reasons.

One of the main issue with GoD, which I don't often see touched upon, is scaling. Disease rolling doesn't scale with the vast majority of your gear. The main thing it does scale with is trinket procs. The other things you 'roll', such as a potion (Wild Magic is probably superior to Insane Strength, by the way. With 4p t9, anyways), doesn't scale. You roll the same potion for the same dps benefit now as you would have done at the start of WotLK. So although it might give, say, +50 damage a disease tick (a completely random and probably inaccurate number), giving you 33.333 dps now, it gave you that same 33.333 dps in Naxx, where it was proportionally more.

Trinkets, as mentioned, do scale. But the procs don't scale well - not nearly as well as the majority of your gear - and therein lies part of GoD's problem. Take Mirror of Truth, a trinket most DKs probably had within a week of hitting 80, and one which has been around for months. Compare the proc to the normal Death's Choice, our second BiS. From a raw AP perspective (which is all that matters for disease rolling. The fact that DC will also increase your pet's damage and such is irrelevant), it gives about 10% more, when you factor in kings/talents/RotFC. 10%. That's a 10% gain from two tiers and 45 ilvls. Weapon damage, on the other hand, has increased by about ~38% in that same ilvl gap.

That's part of the problem: The benefits of disease rolling does not scale as well as the rest of our damage.

Doing a few sims with rounded numbers, that appr. match the BiS Numbers.

<Strength>2000</Strength>
<Agility>100</Agility>
<Intel>50</Intel>
<Armor>15000</Armor>
<AttackPower>850</AttackPower>
<HitRating>280</HitRating>
<CritRating>1000</CritRating>
<HasteRating>400</HasteRating>
<ArmorPenetrationRating>100</ArmorPenetrationRating>
<ExpertiseRating>200</ExpertiseRating>

2H-Weapon: 1x 255.7 dps / 3.6 Speed
DW-Weapons: 2x 196.5 dps / 2.6 Speed

OLD IT-Glyph:

2HSpec: 16-0-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8430 dps

2HSpec: 14-0-57 with Epidemic (3/5 BA, 4/5 DC) - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8381 dps

UB-Glyph:

2HSpec: 16-0-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8329 dps

2HSpec: 14-0-57 with Epidemic (3/5 BA, 4/5 DC) - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8416 dps

NEW IT-Glyph:

2HSpec: 16-0-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8420 dps

2HSpec: 14-0-57 with Epidemic (3/5 BA, 4/5 DC) - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8517 dps

2HSpec: 14-0-57 with Epidemic (5/5 BA, 2/5 DC) - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8505 dps

DWSpec: 3-13-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8498 dps

DWSpec: 1-13-57 with Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8551 dps

w/o 4PCT9 / new IT-Glyph:

2HSpec: 16-0-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 7858 dps

2HSpec: 14-0-57 with Epidemic (3/5 BA, 4/5 DC) - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 7927 dps

2HSpec: 14-0-57 with Epidemic (5/5 BA, 2/5 DC) - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 7941 dps

DWSpec: 3-13-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 7973 dps

DWSpec: 1-13-57 with Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 7996 dps


Conclusion:

- Looking at this numbers Epidemic will be the new winner when 3.3 hits. On live it lacks 14 dps. Not really a difference.
- I just wonder if there is to much disease-clipping involved in the sims. That could the reason why the gap increases with 4PCT9. On paper non-epidemic builds should win, even with the new Glyph. I will do the same sims with a lower latency to check this. (My latency usually is below 50 ms, more around 30-40ms)


------------------------------------------

NEW IT-Glyph - 50ms:

2HSpec: 16-0-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:50ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8718 dps

2HSpec: 14-0-57 with Epidemic (3/5 BA, 4/5 DC) - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:50ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8676 dps

2HSpec: 14-0-57 with Epidemic (5/5 BA, 2/5 DC) - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:50ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8665 dps

DWSpec: 3-13-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:50ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8695 dps

DWSpec: 1-13-57 with Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:50ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8653 dps

------------------------------------------

NEW IT-Glyph - 100ms:

2HSpec: 16-0-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:100ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8571 dps

2HSpec: 14-0-57 with Epidemic (3/5 BA, 4/5 DC) - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:100ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8608 dps

2HSpec: 14-0-57 with Epidemic (5/5 BA, 2/5 DC) - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:100ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8597 dps

DWSpec: 3-13-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:100ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8628 dps

DWSpec: 1-13-57 with Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC-SS-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:100ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8622 dps


Conclusion II:

- If epidemic or non epidemic builds do more dmg just depends on your Latency. If you are able to do your 10-second-rotation in real 10 seconds, as i am able to, non-epidemic builds give you more dmg.
- If 2H or DW do more dmg depends on your latency as well. 2H winning with low latency. DW winning with higher latency. (Remember that BB uses reduced GCD because of being a spell)
- The threshold is about 100ms. If you have higher latency you should take epidemic. If your latency is lower, then play without it.
- The threshold for 2H and DW is about the same. Having 100+ ms favors DW, having less favors 2H. As always just alter your Spec if you get a better Tier-Weapon of the other category.
- I will stick to non epidemic as I love the flexibility of the 10-sec-rotation.


Another Sidenote:

Looking at AMS and soaking RP: Where do you put this RP without losing diseases and/ or destroying your rotation? This 20sec rotation is very tight. You don´t have any GCD before your diseases fall off when executing your rotation. In a 10-second-rotation you could use 5 seconds of diseases to get rid of overflowing RP.

This guy is right, my GoIT is bugged and i dont get the extra 10 rp, and when im doing my rotations im always 1RP short, i have to wait around 2 seconds for my rune cds to finish.
No idea why this guy got an infraction...

GoIT is not bugged; I don't use HoW and still have enough RP for 2 DC's every 10s. As someone else mentioned the RP from the glyph is gained slightly after the RP from the IT cast.

As for having 1 less RP than needed to execute the rotation, this has already been covered - the rotation doesn't on it's own generate quite enough RP. The deficit (of only 6 RP a minute) can be made up though with a BT -> BS for example.

Priority sheets using D&D tend to screw up really badly in the sim. For some reason it often refuses to wait for enough runes to do D&D and just stops using it.

A priority with D&D does actually less damage. I tried it before, coming to the conclusion that doing a set rotation with D&D every 20 seconds yields more dps, because it does not destroy your rotation.

Anyway, here are the sims for you:


NEW IT-Glyph - 150ms:

DWSpec: 3-13-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-BS-D&D-DC-DC-PS-IT-BS-SS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8615 dps

DWSpec: 1-13-57 with Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-BS-D&D-DC-DC-SS-BS-SS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8606 dps


D&D-Glyph - 150ms:

DWSpec: 3-13-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-BS-D&D-DC-DC-PS-IT-BS-SS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8556 dps

DWSpec: 1-13-57 with Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-BS-D&D-DC-DC-SS-BS-SS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:150ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8542 dps


NEW IT-Glyph - 100ms:

DWSpec: 3-13-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-BS-D&D-DC-DC-PS-IT-BS-SS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:100ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8646 dps


NEW IT-Glyph - 50ms:

DWSpec: 3-13-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-BS-D&D-DC-DC-PS-IT-BS-SS-BB-DC-DC - Time: 100h - Latency:50ms - BoneShieldinsteadBS - 8667 dps


Conclusions:

- Forget the D&D Glyph. Stick with the "new" IT-Glyph.
- As expected doing D&D instead of SS and BB will do more dmg if you play with high latency, but only in a very static world. Winning one GCD in this tight rotation is a boost for dmg.
- Getting better latency the standard DW-Rotation beats D&D.

DWSpec: 3-13-55 w/o Epidemic - Rotation: PS-IT-BS-D&D-DC-DC-PS-IT-BS-SS-BB-DC-DC

This seems like too much DCs, I can only count 15+10+10+15=50RP in first part and 15+10+10+20+10=65RP in second part.
That totals 115RP, with a bit of Revitalize that's enough for 3x DCs, but not 4.

Also, because using DnD "costs" 15RP, a question: is DnD > SS + BB + 15/40 * DC

That means we get a free gcd every 20sec, that's apotential DC through Revitalize or AMS. And that free gcd is not there when not using DnD.

Thinking about it, there's one "true" free gcd (because of DnD using one gcd and SS+BB use two gcds), and one "almost filled" gcd (if 40RP is used in first part, there's 75RP in second part - so only a bit away from DC through outside sources).