Individual damage meters from a single guild, no matter how good of a guild, don't mean much of anything. That said, yes, Unholy is obviously viable dps, especially in an encounter which is AoE heavy. There wouldn't be this thread (or the previous one) if such were not the case.

People don't spec Unholy because they think Pebblemonger or Ratbiter or whatever your Ghoul happens to be called is cute.

You break 4p t8 for 2p t9 (the two bonuses have nearly identical value, but the latter set will give you higher stats - of course - thus pushing it over).

3/13/55 and 0/17/54 are pretty close when simmed, iirc. 0/17/14 puts more emphasis on DC, whereas 3/13/55 puts more emphasis on OB. The best thing you could do if you're really interested in performing to the best of your gear is to simulate both specs using your stats, and find out which one is better for you.

4p. T8 has about the same EP as 2p. T9, so you should switch once you get 2p. T9, since the stats will also be an upgrade over T8.

Edit: </3 Consider for beating me to replies all the time. =p

Ok, this is my first post and trying to explain why I don't get the spec you recommend for 2h Unholy :

3/13/55 you recommend,
instead of the one I'm using atm 3/13/55

I mean isn't epidemic useless compared too outbreak for upgrading dps ?? its just a duration increase of IT dot,
while useless since you still reapply IT-PS since you do not have the disease refreshing glyph.

And since reapply-ing the IT-PS would it not be better to increase your PS dps with 30% ??

Rest of spec is pretty much the same though, just a minor upgrade, but still a upgrade in my opinion.


P.S.

Ghouls are cute though

If you don't use Scourge Strike (which is correct) Outbreak is very weak and you are missing Dirge which is one of the most powerful talents.

What the previous poster said, without Dirge you won't be able to fill runegaps with DC's.

You have to understand the rotation is ~20 sec and without Epidemic your diseases will fall of mid(actually not mid, but you get the point)-rotation. I think you're looking at it the wrong way, more seconds on diseases = longer time until you have to re-apply them and use IT+PS instead of a much stronger Obli.

Also: 30% increased damage on a weak skill you use ONCE per 20 sec is incredibly low dps per point.

Last night we did hardmodes on Iron Council, Hodir and Thorim. Especially in Iron Council fight I had significant trouble keeping my pet alive. I used huddle to weather through Overloads but due to Chain Lightnings and other AoE had to use deathcoils quite often to keep my pet alive. Now, assuming my deathcoils are approximately 13% of my total dps and my pet is about 12% of my dps should I just leave the pet to healers mercy and use deathcoils to dps (ofc re-summoning pet after 30 sec)?

Or get Ghoul Frenzy for healing. Or bind follow and attack to easily reachable hotkeys (this seems to me to be the best idea). With GoGhoul it should survive an overload though, shouldn't it. Correct me if I'm wrong though but isn't Overload closeness-related, dealing more damage the closer you are? Should just be enough to put your pet to follow for a short while so it runs a small distance from him.

@Sealpup: I'm assuming you're talking about putting 3/3 Subversion when you say "Blood"? If not I don't get the point.

@Bigwang: Read back a few pages and somewhere there is a post listing DPS for both 3/3 and 0/0 Subversion with different glyphs, including Dark Death and Disease.

Yes, ghoul survives overload (especially with huddle on) but it still takes some damage continuously from things like High Voltage and Static Distrucption which cannot be outranged, prevented or interrupted and unlike myself it doesn't regenerate or self-heal during the fight so sooner or later it will die from damage piling up unless I use DC on it. As for Ghoul Frenzy... I think it was already established that it is a very sucky talent and not really worth it dps- or healingwise.

The fact is that I don't need any more tricks to keep the ghoul alive. I CAN do it, but doing so requires deathcoils in addition to other tricks. What I do need is some way to calculate the "breaking point", i.e. after how many deathcoils does keepoing ghoul alive hurt my dps more than the living ghoul provides?

If your healers aren't keeping pets alive through the misc damage that isn't overload, chain lightning, or lightning whirl they need to be yelled at.

I assumed exactly what Disopadre stated. I'm used to it and thought it was kind of the standard. Even if you had to make a dps-breakdown i bet Ghoul Frenzy for healing would be better than wasting DCs on it though.

I will be quite honest here, I am not sure if the UI forum or this thread is the place for this reply, but considering the importance of my question to this spec's dps, I am sure someone here will be able to assist me.

I am currently trying to configure power auras to monitor my various Unholy Strength buffs in order to maximize the effectiveness of my Garg. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to register spell-ID's, and it will often confuse the three different Unholy Strengths (2pc t9, SoV, and RotFC).

What sort of work-arounds do my fellow unholy death knights use to monitor this? Obviously I would prefer if someone had advice on powerauras configuration, but other addon suggestions are welcome (though I will probably use them as a last resort -- I have taken a liking to power auras).



Also, I suppose this has been beaten into the ground with the new shorter sim results, but lower uptime on 2pc t9 is yet another reason I neglect GoD.

I believe Procodile is the mod that allows you to enter spells/buffs/procs based on spell ID.

Classtimer will do this for you.

New PTR build, here are the Unholy changes:
# Dirge no longer affects Obliterate.
# Bone Shield cooldown has been lowered from 2 min to 1 min.
# Subversion now also affects Scourge Strike.

Also:

• Glyph of Scourge Strike - Your Scourge Strike increases the duration of your Blood Plague and Frost Fever on the target by 3 sec, up to a maximum of 9 additional seconds. (Old - Your Scourge Strike has a 25% chance to cause Blood Plague and Frost Fever.)

Looking at the rough napkin math, I do want to say this will be enough to push 3/10/58 SS over 3/13/55 Oblit or 0/17/54 Oblit. The Dirge nerf is in the ballpark of 100-200 dps lost for Oblit builds, and the Subversion/Glyph changes are in the ballpark of 100-200 dps gained for SS builds. When you then add in the ArP nerf (minor as it may be) and the fact that Oblit is actually only superior to SS by ~200-250ish dps to begin with, it should be enough.

Gearing is going to be a pain once again (Agility being better than ArP will be a joy, once more), but at least it will be nice to be back to SS, and back in a way which isn't a dps loss.

Edit: I'll update the OP this evening with a section for the PTR or more likely just something along th lines of "Upcoming Changes". I won't redo stuff like the rotation/spec/etcetera until things actually go live (although I will type up replacements to have ready the second it does). Considering how liable things on the PTR are to being changed, this seems the most prudent thing to do, imo, although advice/criticism is welcome as always.

Interesting change to make the cycle an even 30 seconds with no randomness.

Ideally it won't put the diseases on the same timer, too, like the old glyph. From my understanding diseases ticking at the same time can still invoke a 1sec icd on WP.

Upcoming Changes section added to the OP. Very preliminary, but should suffice until actual numbers are calculated.

Technically, the glyph of SS change makes your rotation 60 seconds, not 30, due to death runes and horn cooldown. It's really just best to do as you've always done and think of it not as a rotation but as a priority system (diseases -> rp dump if capped -> FU strike -> blood runes to death runes -> rp dump if not capped -> horn).

Assuming the glyph follows the mechanics of the moonkin and warlock equivalents, it should just add a flat 3 seconds to the disease duration, meaning that yes, they won't be on the same timer (since they will have different timers remaining when that 3 seconds is added). It also means that, yes, no disease clipping. It's a very nice buff, and very well thought out.

Here is to hoping that the extra 9 seconds applies to Ebon as well. Blizz has done stranger things in the past.

With this change, we gain 3 talents from annihilation but must now spend 4 for outbreak and scourge strike. This means dropping 1 from either desolation or necrosis. So how valuable is a 30 second rotation vs a 21 rotation, but adding those 2 extra points to max out both desolation and necrosis as a 3rd option?

So with a 30 second rotation (assuming ebon works right) we gain 1 SS and 1 GCD every 60 seconds.

So does IT + PS + maxed necrosis and desolation greater or lesser than 1 SS. Also, what is the chance of raid dps lost if ebon falls off with 30 second diseases?

If the glyph doesn't extend EP, than it becomes worthless. Regardless of the potential raid dps loss, it's a personal dps loss due to the CF portion of the debuff. If EP really is unaffected, then a lot of assumptions change, and not for the better. I can't imagine an oversight of that nature - at least not one which makes it off the PTR - but we'll see, I suppose.

I'm not sure how maxed necrosis/desolation play any role on Glyph of SS. Unless I am missing something stupidly obvious, there's no connection. Otherwise, 1 SS > 1 PS and 1 IT, especially with the new Subversion.

Edit: Oh, oh. I see what you're saying. That's a poor comparison though. Even without the Glyph of SS change, the new Subversion + the new Dirge + Glyph of UB = SS wins out regardless (probably, anyways - that's what needs to be determined exactly), so you can't just say "GoSS is only a dps increase if it's better than 1 talent point + 1 SS - 1 PS - 1 IT". That's not the central point. It's "Is 3/10/58 better than 3/13/55 when you account for the new Subversion + the new Dirge + either Glyph of Unholy Blight or Glyph of Scourge Strike".

The extra talent point issue isn't Glyph related, and the new Glyph is not the turning point in the Ob vs SS matter.

Indirect connection. I'm talking about 3/10/50 maxed epidemic vs 3/10/58 maxed necrosis and desolation.

In the maxed epidemic spec, we get 30 second diseases that gain us 1 SS every 60 seconds, but we lose 1 talent point in either necrosis or desolation.

In the maxed necrosis and desolation build, we lose that extra SS every 60 seconds and have 24 second diseases.

So is 1 SS more dps than IT, PS, and 2 talent points.

SS will hit harder and crit more as well as free up 1 GCD every 60 seconds which can be used for a DC, especially on a fight with much use of AMS.

Edit: Not talking about oblit, I know the dirge and subversion changes will kill that.

I misunderstood, I see. My apologies.

So if I am understanding correctly this time, you're essentially trying to see if using GoSS in place of Epidemic and following your regular rotation is a dps boost over taking Epidemic and GoSS?

If so, I'm thinking the former is superior. It comes down to 2 talent points or the difference between 1 GCD every 30 seconds and 1 SS/20 seconds minus 1 PS + 1 IT/20 seconds.

I completely missed that possibility when reading the glyph change. Interesting. And then you also have to compare 2 talent points or the difference between 1 GCD every 30 seconds and 1 SS/20 seconds minus 1 PS + 1 IT/20 seconds or Glyph of Unholy Blight. Time for some math.