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Old 10/13/09, 7:24 PM   #856
arjor
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
less often.

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Old 10/13/09, 7:28 PM   #857
unifin
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Cenarion Circle
Mind posting some stats on those crits?

As my DK is primarily an arena toon, I'd appreciate knowing the stats you're running with to get those kind of numbers.

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Old 10/13/09, 7:31 PM   #858
arjor
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
The World of Warcraft Armory
Those numbers were done to lvl 55 dummies, had only self buffs and a flask.

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Old 10/13/09, 7:40 PM   #859
unifin
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Cenarion Circle
Mind hitting the boss dummy? It's going to have a lot more armor than the level 55 ones :/

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Old 10/13/09, 7:42 PM   #860
arjor
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Sure, however those level 55 dummies best simulate a fully debuffed boss.

With mjolnir up: 5250 + 7620.
without: 4243 + 6871.

Both are crits ofc.

Last edited by arjor : 10/13/09 at 7:48 PM.

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Old 10/13/09, 7:52 PM   #861
Larisroth
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Thaurissan
Looking at the other relics, either the 73 strength should be 44 or it should only stack 3 times. Still it should be 220 strength once fully stacked. I hope its the latter, because otherwise it would take the best part of 20 seconds to get it stacked to max even using ERW.

The feral druid is a different beast altogether.

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Old 10/13/09, 7:52 PM   #862
Bonecaller
Banned
 
Human Death Knight
 
Zuluhed (EU)
Originally Posted by arjor View Post
Sure, however those level 55 dummies best simulate a fully debuffed boss.
Even if they do, showing your highest crit damage isnt what we need or are interested in. Death Strike has over 50% crit while the crit chance for both SS hits to crit is a lot lower.

Posting absolutely high numbers (or low) isnt hat interesting, i am more interested in:
- is the shadow part based on spell hit and spell crit?
- what are the average numbers for those hits and crits?

On the lvl55 dumimies, i had an average of 9k per SS. Seems to me a little too much for raidbuffed.

Last edited by Bonecaller : 10/13/09 at 8:07 PM.

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Old 10/13/09, 8:04 PM   #863
arjor
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Avg numbers:
Physical hit: 2.2k - 2.6k
Physical crit: 5.5k - 6.5k
Shadow hit: 2.6k - 2.9k
Shadow crit - 9k - 11k

The shadow part seem to be hitting slightly harder then the physical part even if it doesn't crit.

edit:

Seems I've been wrong about the shadow part criting less often, looks like both are the same.

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Old 10/13/09, 9:16 PM   #864
arjor
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Ruik View Post
T10 Sigil: Item - Death Knight T10 DPS Relic (Obliterate, Scourge Strike, Death Strike) - Your Obliterate, Scourge Strike, and Death Strike abilities grants 73 Strength for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.

That sounds incredibly nice.
That's got to be a mistake, if you look at the other classes:

Druid: The periodic damage from your Lacerate and Rake abilities grants 44 Agility for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.
Paladin: Your Crusader Strike ability grants 44 Strength for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.
Shaman: Your Stormstrike ability grant 146 attack power rating for 15 sec. Stacks up to 3 times.

I think our sigil will be 73 str stacks 3 times or 44 str stacks 5 times both give 219-220 str respectfully.

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Old 10/13/09, 9:38 PM   #865
puupi
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Just tested the new scourge strike on PTR. Noticed this: my average physical crit was like 5.5-6k, then the shadow proc HITS for 6k. Now if I got a double crit, that physical is (of course) the same 6k, and the shadow CRIT is around 9k. So the shadow crit damage is like 150% crit, not 200 or 230 as it should(?) be.


EDIT: Screenshots from combatlog:
CRIT/HIT


CRIT/CRIT


EDIT2: Another thing is that damage meters, such as Recount, track them as a single strike. Therefore it's hard to really know how high the average crit rating on the shadow damage portion is. I mean if it's based on physical crit or spell crit, and does it calculate all talents etc...

Last edited by puupi : 10/13/09 at 9:52 PM.

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Old 10/13/09, 9:51 PM   #866
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by puupi View Post
Just tested the new scourge strike on PTR. Noticed this: my average physical crit was like 5.5-6k, then the shadow proc HITS for 6k. Now if I got a double crit, that physical is (of course) the same 6k, and the shadow CRIT is around 9k. So the shadow crit damage is like 150% crit, not 200 or 230 as it should(?) be.
The crit damage should be at 200% (as are all DK spell attacks). So their is a bug somewhere in the code.

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Old 10/14/09, 4:52 AM   #867
bsolar
Glass Joe
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Runetotem (EU)
From this reply GC confirms the crit should be 200% and should not use spell hit.

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
The crit damage should definitely be at 200% (as are all DK spell attacks). I suspect the spell hit, if that is indeed happening, is also a bug.

We're going to wait for more numbers to trickle in before we make any additional decisions.

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Old 10/14/09, 10:00 AM   #868
Sulika
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Bloodfeather (EU)
Originally Posted by arjor View Post
That's got to be a mistake, if you look at the other classes:

Druid: The periodic damage from your Lacerate and Rake abilities grants 44 Agility for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.
Paladin: Your Crusader Strike ability grants 44 Strength for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.
Shaman: Your Stormstrike ability grant 146 attack power rating for 15 sec. Stacks up to 3 times.

I think our sigil will be 73 str stacks 3 times or 44 str stacks 5 times both give 219-220 str respectfully.
That would put the sigil at a very small upgrade at best, most likely a sidegrade or even a downgrade. Going from a single proc 200 str to a 3 proc 219 str is going to be inferior in a lot of places.

With virulence at an 80% proc chance you will have on average:

160, 192, 198 str on the first three scourge strikes. With the new sigil as a three proc limit you would have:
73, 146, 219 str on the first three scourge strikes. So you have 8.5 seconds at an average of 87 lower str, followed by 1.5 seconds at an average of 46 lower str, 10 seconds at an average of 21 higher str and then the remainder of the fight at an average of 19 higher str (the fractional chance of not getting a virulence proc in your first 4 scourge strikes being ignored for now).

So the breakeven point for buff uptime, would be ((87 * 8.5 + 46 * 1.5) - (21 * 10)) / 19 + 10 = 41.5 seconds. So anytime the buff drops it is going to take you 41.5 seconds (after your first scourge strike) just to get back to where you would be just using Sigil of Virulence.

It also makes it harder to get the proc up for your initial gargoyle cast since you either have to wait 10 more seconds for the second rotation to get the sigil fully procced potentially losing some gargoyle uptime later in the fight and also potentially losing the procs from some other trinkets etc, most notably if your Death's Verdict procs in the first couple of autoattacks it will have dropped by the end of the second rotation.

Overall I would say that at 3 procs of 73 str the sigil would at be pretty much a sidegrade. If it requires 5 procs of 44 then it would probably end up being a downgrade.

Of course, as written with 5 procs of 73 str the sigil looks like a pretty sizable upgrade. As written you would have:

8.5 seconds at 87 lower str. (Time from first SS first rotation to first SS of second rotation)
1.5 seconds at 46 lower str. (Time from first SS second rotation to second SS of second rotation)
3.0 seconds at 21 higher str. (Time from second SS second rotation to third SS of second rotation)
6.0 seconds at 92 higher str. (Time from third SS second rotation to first SS of third rotation)
Remainder at 165 higher str.

This assumes a 2nd rotation of 3 scourge strikes (assuming of course that Blizz succeed in making that rotation desirable again as seems to be the goal).

The breakeven point here would be 20.2 seconds after the first Scourge Strike and from that point forward you are at 165 higher str which is pretty substantial.

If our rotation doesn't change and the PS-IT-SS-BS-BS-Burn rotation stays then You have the simpler

10 seconds at 87 lower str.
10 seconds at 46 lower str.
10 seconds at 21 higher str.
10 seconds at 92 higher str.
Remainder at 165 higher str.

This wouldn't break even for 41.2 seconds.

Lastly the 15 second time to drop means that in an AoE situation where you are gettin 1 scourge strike per 20 seconds the Virulence sigil will of course remain superior.

Last edited by Sulika : 10/14/09 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Removed the wrong thread part as it is now in the right place

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Old 10/14/09, 10:40 AM   #869
Artamier
Banned
 
Orc Rogue
 
Firetree
I've been playing about with spec's and rotations on the PTR. Ofcourse since the change to SS ArP helps it, but has anyone done the math behind how much ArP is a good number to have for it? Also on the PTR i have try'd the current live spec and rotation ofcourse the dps is way lower from live. I have also tested a spec with epidemic and reaping going back to the 4 SS rotation still seem lower than my live dps, Is ArP really that improtant now for SS? If anyone that has come up with the spec or rotation thats going to be viable in 3.3 plz post your testing. i have yet to find a spec/rotation to top my live dps i hold 4600-4700 dps on target dummy on live.

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Old 10/14/09, 2:06 PM   #870
Max zero
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
<RoE>
Khaz'goroth
New post by GC:

1) Scourge Strike should crit for 200% damage like other DK spell effects.

2) The Shadow part of the damage should never miss if the physical part hits.

3) The Shadow part of the damage should never be decreased additionally to the physical damage. It should not "double dip" from resilience et al. Example: My physical portion that hits for 2000 is reduced to 1000. The Shadow part should then hit for 1000 (modulo bonuses) and not 500 or whatever.

4) The Shadow part of the damage will still be increased additionally by talents and anything else that buff Shadow damage. It will "double dip" in the DKs favor. Example: My physical portion hits for 2000 and is reduced to 1000. The Shadow portion hits for 1500 because I have +50% Shadow damage.
It almost sounds too good to be true.

Basically it double dips, but only when in our favour.

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