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Old 10/15/09, 5:13 PM   #901
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
Originally Posted by Drelnax View Post
Rotation Suggestion: First Half- PS,IT,SS,BS,BS,HoW,Garg
Second Half- SS,SS,SS, DC DUMP
A rotation can't have the Gargoyle in it. If you leave it out, you'll have the normal SS rotation. Your build is also not very good.


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Old 10/15/09, 5:39 PM   #902
Artamier
Banned
 
Orc Rogue
 
Firetree
Just a quick question i know Arp is a stat to have for unholy now, but has anyone figured how much ArP raitng will be enough unbuffed I.E 300 ArP rating and so on.

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Old 10/15/09, 5:52 PM   #903
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Artamier View Post
Just a quick question i know Arp is a stat to have for unholy now, but has anyone figured how much ArP raitng will be enough unbuffed I.E 300 ArP rating and so on.
0 ArP is enough to do good dps. However, just like crit and strength, getting more ArP will increase your dps.

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Old 10/15/09, 5:54 PM   #904
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
Originally Posted by Artamier View Post
Just a quick question i know Arp is a stat to have for unholy now, but has anyone figured how much ArP raitng will be enough unbuffed I.E 300 ArP rating and so on.
That number simply doesn't exist for any class or spec. Arp is ok now for Unholy, that's all you need to know.


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Old 10/15/09, 6:45 PM   #905
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
I forgot to offer them before, but the set bonus EP values for the 14/0/57 PTR spec/rotation:

EP: 2T7 88.89
EP: 4T7 49.21
EP: 2T8 104.76
EP: 4T8 282.54
EP: 2T9 138.1
EP: 4T9 422.22
EP: 2T10 220.63
EP: 4T10 395.24

Making the transition to 4P T10 will be a no brainer.

Assuming you are going from the ilvl 245 t9 set to the ilvl 264 (hm 10/normal 25 ICC) set, you probably will not be able to drop 4P T9 for 2P T10, not until you have at least 3 pieces of T10. A tier and a half isn't enough to give you 200 AP from one upgrade (not two, since its more a matter of going from 4P T9 + 1P T10 to 3P T9 + 2P T10 than anything else. Thus you have to go from 4P T9 + 1P T10 to 2P T9 + 3P T10). It all depends exactly how T10 is itemized, of course, so only time will tell.

Last edited by Consider : 10/15/09 at 6:52 PM.

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Old 10/15/09, 8:15 PM   #906
slacker0010
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Al'Akir
Hey all, i'm new to elitist jerks so....please don't be elitist jerks to me

I have been using your aoe rotation with 3 or more mobs so far and single target rotation for two except replacing a blood strike with pestillence. This has worked pretty well for me until my blood dk guild leader who i regard as a pretty smart person said that i should forget about dnd because it uses too many runes for the damage that it does. This totally confused me because it was my staple in aoe pulls. Ideas anyone? i was thinking maybe move my 3 mob rule up to 4 mobs or something

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Old 10/15/09, 8:33 PM   #907
Larisroth
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Thaurissan
I take it those EP values were with a 3 SS per 20 second rotation?

Reaping would give you another, a glyph of disease build would give you another.
A glyph of scourge strike build would have 5 base SS per 30 seconds.

If you assume they'd make reaping worth it (a design goal) then that means that you're doing roughly 4/3, 13/9 and 5/3 times as many SS in the normal/GoSS/GoD reaping builds. So the 2T10 EP values for those builds would be around 294, 319 and 368. That's certainly a lot easier to get on one upgrade. Of course the whole analysis is rather dependent on the what percentage of our damage SS ends up doing, and what talents buff it.

Then again, if it's an ae heavy fight, you'll probably want to run with your 4 piece T9 for a lot longer.

The feral druid is a different beast altogether.

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Old 10/15/09, 8:42 PM   #908
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
14/0/57 would be 3 SS per 20, yes. Reaping would make it 11/0/60.

GoSS still isn't worth it, and GoD is GoD.

But, anyways, those EP values are obviously not set in stone. They are very preliminary. As it currently stands, Reaping is not worth it - if this changes, then the EP values would obviously change. Yes, Reaping is probably an intended talent, but it's not worth taking yet, so why act as if it was? If it was, then something would have to be different, and that something different would shift EP values yet again, quite possibly!

Those numbers are accurate for the time being, nothing more, and I didn't make any claims (and hope no one made any assumptions) that they were absolute.

Besides, I didn't put them in the OP for a reason ^^.

_______________

As to Slacker, using Pest + DnD has been shown to be worth doing on as low as two mobs. The math, done by Bensch, is probably about ten-fifteen pages back by now, but a search should turn it up easily enough. You would be correct in you use, as Unholy.

This, however, does not hold true for Blood DKs. They require more mobs, as their diseases and DnD are both weaker. Thus your guild leader is right, so far as his spec goes. Just incorrect in regards to your own.

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Old 10/15/09, 8:55 PM   #909
eventually
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Dreadmaul
I just did the PTR Boss, have the combat log parsed, using the spec 17 0 54, dark conviction over necrosis (personal preference).

The SS numbers are rather impressive, the listed numbers = average, straight from world of logs (our logs are private, so can't link sorry)

Scourge Strike 9.1 % 4155.8 7173.2
Scourge Strike 8.4 % 2500.9 5447.9

The top one being the shadow portion, and bottom one physical component. With hit and crit respectively, 65% Crit for physical component, 45% for shadow component, the fight is very short though so the crit rate would be inaccurate, but its most likely based off of spell crit.

Also to note that the shadow portion crit isn't 200% yet, making it even more amazing.

Gear used Here

Last edited by eventually : 10/15/09 at 11:20 PM.

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Old 10/15/09, 9:41 PM   #910
AtheistGod
Piston Honda
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Artamier View Post
Just a quick question i know Arp is a stat to have for unholy now, but has anyone figured how much ArP raitng will be enough unbuffed I.E 300 ArP rating and so on.
The problem with people asking about minimum ArP is that there is none. As you get more it gets better. Aiming for ArP at 0 to reach a special point makes no sense since at that point ArP is now better than when you were at 0. Most of the "minimum"s used are stuff like hit/haste/crit where there are soft/hard caps or flurry uptime that cause the stat to be worth a lot but lose it's value once a goal has been achieved, such as fitting 1 extra attack into a rotation. The point of this for ArP is at the 100% cap, however for unholy it's unlikely that aiming for the cap will ever be worth it.

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Old 10/16/09, 1:03 AM   #911
Zelretch
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Dun Modr (EU)
Originally Posted by slacker0010 View Post
Hey all, i'm new to elitist jerks so....please don't be elitist jerks to me

I have been using your aoe rotation with 3 or more mobs so far and single target rotation for two except replacing a blood strike with pestillence. This has worked pretty well for me until my blood dk guild leader who i regard as a pretty smart person said that i should forget about dnd because it uses too many runes for the damage that it does. This totally confused me because it was my staple in aoe pulls. Ideas anyone? i was thinking maybe move my 3 mob rule up to 4 mobs or something
As an Unholy DK, DnD deals incredible damage in AoE heavy fights, enough to be your main source of damage without it glyphed (over individual diseases, but around half of what BP+FF+WP do together). You aren't doing anything wrong.

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Old 10/16/09, 2:20 AM   #912
taehanpak
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Alexstrasza
Originally Posted by eventually View Post
I just did the PTR Boss, have the combat log parsed, using the spec 17 0 54, dark conviction over necrosis (personal preference).

The SS numbers are rather impressive, the listed numbers = average, straight from world of logs (our logs are private, so can't link sorry)

Scourge Strike 9.1 % 4155.8 7173.2
Scourge Strike 8.4 % 2500.9 5447.9

The top one being the shadow portion, and bottom one physical component. With hit and crit respectively, 65% Crit for physical component, 45% for shadow component, the fight is very short though so the crit rate would be inaccurate, but its most likely based off of spell crit.

Also to note that the shadow portion crit isn't 200% yet, making it even more amazing.

Gear used Here
I'm assuming SS was buffed quite well in PTR?

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Old 10/16/09, 3:39 AM   #913
eventually
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Dreadmaul
Originally Posted by taehanpak View Post
I'm assuming SS was buffed quite well in PTR?
Indeed, from the log for the shadow component it shows only 3% of the damage resisted (partial resists) so not that big of a issue, I thought it would be higher.

Can't wait to test it once the shadow portion is 100% crit though, assuming the numbers from my parse, your double crits will be averaging 15k, finally making it a rather big FU strike compared to the other specs

Last edited by eventually : 10/16/09 at 6:14 PM.

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Old 10/16/09, 5:09 AM   #914
ultimakaiser
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Silvermoon (EU)
With the Gear upgrades we will be critting for around 16-17k. That is a 80% increase over to 3.2, I would say that covers the loss in DPS with UB.

Nonetheless it would be interesting how people dealt with the rotation. So far I see a couple of holes in the rotation w/o GoIT in its 3.2 state due to the lack in RP-generation.

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Old 10/16/09, 8:55 AM   #915
NeuroMedivh
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Greymane
You fill those holes with HoW, Blood Tap-Blood Strike, Gargoyle, whatever else you need a GCD for.

Too many free GCDs is not necessarily a bad thing, but too few definitely is.

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