Eventually: By the way, as worldoflogs isn't showing the highest crits etc. What was your megauberallprocson-crit with SS?

You seem to spec into epidmic and drop GoSS for GoD, and i've been trying to work out the rotation useing pest after first 20 sec rotation but can't get it down maybe you were using a different one than me. The rotation seem'd really really tight, and sometimes screwing it all up which drops numbers. if you dont mind which rotation did you factor into the Sim?

I did some limited testing and it was consistent with your findings, at lower gear levels, albeit I discovered the Glyph of IT which boosts frost fever is not working in the sim v1.1.7.2 (reported it, Afabar will be fixing).

I used a priority, as I said, of BP>FF>SS>BS>DC. It roughly works out (after initial diseases up) to SS - SS - BS - Pest - DC -- SS - SS - SS - DC - DC. Due to additional RP from butchery, blood tap, boneshield, etc you'll occtionally have an extra DC. Personally I've never been a fan of a strict rotation because when it gets screwed up you need to decide how to restart it. Priorities tell you I want my diseases up so if they aren't I know I want to fix that. Then I want to SS if I have the frost and unholy runes. If not I'll use blood runes to pest and BS.

As for the GoIT are you sure you were using it properly? I change IcyTouch in the glyph section to IcyTouchII in order to get the proper glyph. It showed results consistant with what I would expect changing GoDD out for GoIT, a slight DPS loss.

For me GoD builds seem to sim better for live even with the multiple fights of length X specified. The good thing as far as I can see about 3.3 is that SS change combined with the the nerfing / eventual loss of 4T9 actually changes the emphasis of using the glyph.

At the moment the main focus is on making sure you roll the diseases with the best possible modifiers because combined they're a massive portion of your damage. In 3.3, the main reason I see for using it is so that you get an extra SS every 20 seconds, and in single target fights it may actually not be worth it to roll with the absolute best diseases if it costs you an extra SS to reapply them.

Yeah, I don't believe GoD can be resisted any longer (unfortunately ><. Considering how much I detest the glyph, it takes a lot for me to say this).

The fact that 1 SS will be greater than one PS + one IT + one BS means that even if you ignore increased disease damage, the glyph will be a dps boost. Then when you account for the fact that diseases won't clip... it becomes competitive. Toss in disease rolling, and it becomes superior.

But, yes, after a lot of running of the sim, I can definitely confirm such results, regardless of fight length, gear level, set bonuses, or any such things.

GoIT will still have its place - in any fight with more than a single mob for more than a fraction of a second, it will pull ahead of GoDD. The only fights in WotLK I can think of where it wouldn't would be Hodir and General in Ulduar. None in CC. Patchwerk and such in Naxx. The only time you'll really use GoDD will be Patchwerk-esqe fights (which Festergut more or less is, for melee).

At any rate, I'll update the OP later this evening, and try to generate some appropriate stat weights to throw up.

That's a bit misleading, in my opinion. Yes in every fight with multiple mobs GoIT will be more DPS on the meter. The question is more will it be more DPS where it matters? Let's just go with ToC because, quite frankly, its the only tier that matters right now:

1a. Gormok - GoIT edges ahead while snobolds are up but isn't as solid when you're down to just gormok, its a wash.
1b. Jormungar - GoIT wins if the worms are close enough together for you to pest effectively
1c. Icehowl - Single target and you can build up RP for when he's stunned

2. Jarraxxus - GoIT wins out here with adds but considering the amount of time you have just jarraxxus up its not by much

3. Faction champions - This really depends on how you do the fight. For my raid GoIT is a solid loser because we CC some targets and pestilence will break that CC. If you aren't CCing anything then GoIT is an obvious winner here

4. Twins - GoIT wins on the meters but GoDD provides more burst for shattering the pact shield

5. Anub - GoIT wins for the first 70% of the fight and overall but GoDD provides the superior damage for the final 30%


Its very likely going to come down to a matter of personal choice. GoIT is very likely going to improve your spot on recount on most fights. However, it doesn't always necessarily get the boss down faster. Overall I think the two glyphs are very well balanced against eachother and both have their place. A lot will come down to what Icecrown fights look like. A lot of multi boss or add filled fights will favor GoIT, while a majority if single target fights will favor GoDD.

As for GoDisease I totally agree with you about being leery about relying on it. Not because I dislike the glyph for any reason but because I think its going to be deemed overpowered like the old GoIT. Its overall affect just seems too good to be true and it completely dwarfs the GoSS in an unholy build that focuses on SS. That strikes me as poor design and makes me worry about the future of GoD. That's just idle speculation on my part though.

Double check this in case I'm checking the wrong box somewhere but I'm getting GoIT II being a small upgrade over Glyph of the Ghoul with that 15/0/56 GoD spec.

It also bothers me that this spec with my current gear is showing me breaking 9k which is about 2k more than I run at now. Is this right? Is new Scourge Strike that good?

The current version of the sim is somewhat overestimating the damage of Scourge Strike (or so I believe, judging by the 14k-15k average SS damage it's showing. Haven't yet been able to figure out where it's going wrong - if it even is). Regardless, the upcoming patch is a (single target) dps gain, simply not of the 2000 dps/near 30% magnitude.

GoIT probably is superior to GotG. The reason why sacrificing GotG was not considered (and usually hasn't been considered in the present, despite being slightly inferior to GoDD currently) was (is) due to the survivability aspect of it - the rather solid chunk of health lets your ghoul survive stuff (Shock Blast on Mimiron, for instance) which it otherwise wouldn't, and a pet death is a huge dps loss. That, and the gap between it and the alternatives is quite small.

With the buff to Night of the Dead, however, this might no longer matter - especially if the ICC fights are pet friendly.

The more I think about it, you're probably right. Which would make GoIT/GoD/GoDD standard for single target, and GoIT/GoD/GoDnD standard for AoE. It will also slightly impact the value of str (although post-hit cap it will still be the best stat to gem, no question) and the value of haste (which has already plummeted).

Edit: Some preliminary stat weights for 15/0/56 with GoD. I used the same stats shown above, except I turned on Deaths Choice and its heroic counterpart:

AttackPower	1
Strength	2.96
Agility	1.74
CritRating	2.38
HasteRating	0.49
ArmorPenetrationRating	2.03
ExpertiseRating	2.49
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8%	7.48
SpellHitRating	1.17
WeaponDPS	7.68
WeaponSpeed	362.32
2T9	84.06
4T9	456.52
2T10	521.74
4T10	434.78

Value of haste rating seems a bit too low, and the value of hit seems way high. Those aside, all seems logical enough. Agi/crit are somewhat higher then I would expect, but I'm probably not giving SS double dipping into it enough credit, especially when you consider it double dips into agi/crit, but only dips once into stats like Str/ArP/WeaponDps/etc.

Edit 2: Generating a combat log and looking through it, the SS numbers all appear pretty accurate, actually. 14k average s still seem a bit high, but the combat log is right, so no cause to doubt it. SS being over a third of our damage should please some people, I'm sure.

Don't forget that GoDD loses value on fights where you lose boss time on switches or phase changes such as Beasts when the Jormungers(sp?) go under, diseases have a chance to fall off then.

It's (currently) the same as it was - 40% - so, yes, it's twice as bad. Not even a 0.4% boost to your overall damage. Kinda horrid. Would be nice if they changed it somehow (not simply make it stronger, but make it so it isn't the same as GoDD, simply weaker - or even stronger).

GoSS is actually better than it now.