Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 68

Vyria · 10/23/09, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by Kithus

How do your stats compare to the stats Consider and I are using? The stats we plugged in relate to a BiS set of gear from ToC Hardmodes, including iLevel 258 weapons and tribute chest cloaks. Its quite possible the sim doesn't have the new SS quite right. However, they are not "definately incorrect" because one person who may have wildly different stats from those we are using does not see his numbers match up. Please provide more the anecdotal evidence to back up your point.

His armory shows him with BiS gear from ToC Hardmodes including iLevel 258 weapons and tribute chest cloak. An actual parse would be nice though.

zagor · 10/23/09, 1:51 PM

I'll go out on a limb and say he's just not adding together physical+shadow components together.

Nyth_ · 10/23/09, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by eventually

JThe sim numbers for scourge strike are definitely incorrect, my average scourge strikes on festergut were no where near 15k.

If you add up the average crit of scourge strike from the shadow and physical in your screenshot. That is nearly 14k damage.
I think they were using BiS gear as well.

You sure you consider both shadow and physical component ?

Jesabelle · 10/23/09, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by Nyth_

If you add up the average crit of scourge strike from the shadow and physical in your screenshot. That is nearly 14k damage.
I think they were using BiS gear as well.

You sure you consider both shadow and physical component ?

If you do the math out, the overall average physical strike (crits and hits combined) in that screen is 4471, and the average shadow strike is 6151, which is about 10.6k average for scourge strike, not 14k. My math could be wrong, but I don't think so =X

of course, the missing crit talents could mix things up some.

Silandra · 10/23/09, 2:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jesabelle

If you do the math out, the overall average physical strike (crits and hits combined) in that screen is 4471, and the average shadow strike is 6151, which is about 10.6k average for scourge strike, not 14k. My math could be wrong, but I don't think so =X

of course, the missing crit talents could mix things up some.

I think he added an extra word in error; if you look at the average crit physical + shadow part you get 13867.9, which is close to 14k. Not average non-crit+crit, just average crit.

Athansor · 10/23/09, 2:50 PM

3 things can be taken in to account there.

1. It's a relatively small sample size.

2. The crit rate on the unholy portion was only 36.20% while it was 60.34% for the physical portion.

3. You will almost never match the sim numbers exactly as you're never in a perfect world.

Number 2 does not account for much, as if the crit rate of the unholy portion was 60% it would only raise the average by 743 for a total average of 11364

Would need a much larger sample size, all verifying max/best raid composition and from a fight where you get 100% up time on situational buffs.

Afabar · 10/23/09, 3:07 PM

The average of the simulator is not correct. Not that overall result is not good, it's just the formula used is the report that is off due to his 2 parts. I may separate them to have as better view of physical and magical average.

Stealthah · 10/23/09, 3:17 PM

Reading through the thread Ive found two different values for UH dw EP's and for 2H UH EP's. They are as follows.

DW UH EP'S
Weapon DPS |636
Hit until 11% | 388
Strength |306
Haste |124
Crit |121
Expertise |118
Hit post 11% |115
AP |100
Armor Pen |84
Agility |54

2H BP EP'S
Stat BP Builds 2H<--------
Attack Power 1.0
Weapon Speed 238.10
Weapon DPS 6.03
Hit Rating (until cap) 3.05
Strength 3.05
Haste Rating 2.29
Crit Rating w/ 4pt9 2.10
Expertise Rating 1.65

Theres obviously some huge variations here but I was wondering if the first one was perhaps an old set of EP values or if those were still infact true? (This is all 3.2 ep's, not 3.3) Also there is no mention of weapon speed for DW so I wasnt sure if it was completely irrelavent for OH/MH dps or if it is actually the same as 2h.

Crewell · 10/23/09, 4:55 PM

One thing people may want to take a look at with Glyph of Disease becoming a mainstay (at least as of now) is the Blood DPS thread. There is some good discussion there about how to squeek out some extra disease damage mostly by reapplying them at the proper time after you get STR/AP procs from gear.

eventually · 10/23/09, 5:06 PM

Originally Posted by Kithus

How do your stats compare to the stats Consider and I are using? The stats we plugged in relate to a BiS set of gear from ToC Hardmodes, including iLevel 258 weapons and tribute chest cloaks. Its quite possible the sim doesn't have the new SS quite right. However, they are not "definately incorrect" because one person who may have wildly different stats from those we are using does not see his numbers match up. Please provide more the anecdotal evidence to back up your point.

Feel free to click my name to see my gear, or go back a page(pg 39) to see the evidence already provided (a parse on festergut, patchwerk fight with 43m hp), which someone already quoted.

It is incorrect, as kahorie already pointed out.

Originally Posted by Nyth_

If you add up the average crit of scourge strike from the shadow and physical in your screenshot. That is nearly 14k damage.
I think they were using BiS gear as well.

You sure you consider both shadow and physical component ?

The average for scourge strike in the sim is 15k, this includes all 4 possible outcomes being, hit hit, crit hit, hit crit and crit crit.

Which is "definitely inaccurate" as I pointed out earlier.

These are the numbers from wowmeteronline, which shows the average damage of the strike (factoring in both hits and crits, with a rather accurate crit rate)

Scourge Strike 356,763 6,151 36.2% (MAGICAL)
Scourge Strike 259,348 4,471 60.3% (PHYSICAL)

Average scourge strike adding up to 10.6k where the same gear gave 15k in the sim.

MMQ · 10/23/09, 7:35 PM

Just a clarification...
Will fights now open with IT-PS-SS-BS-Pest-dump, or will we be BSing twice on the opening?

also, will the increase of agi as a stat change the cloak enchant to 22agi from haste?

ty in advance

Moon · 10/23/09, 11:11 PM

I'm willing to bet that opening would be ps-it-ss-bs-bs, and likely here all your procs would be up and running, and you would reapply diseases and then go into keeping them up with pestilence.

Jackinthegreen · 10/23/09, 11:26 PM

Damage-wise, the best single target opening would be PS-IT-BS-SS-BS-Dump because of BS proccing Desolation before SS goes off.

Consider · 10/23/09, 11:33 PM

Yes, the opening will probably be PS - IT - BS - BS - SS - DC - HoW - DC. Then, next refresh, PS - IT - SS - SS - DC - DC, and the following rotation you can start just pesting and such. You should have most of your procs and such up when you do that second PS - IT, but if you ever get more, simply refresh as appropriate. Simple enough.

Unlike Blood, it's not really worth us going through a set of runes diseaseless to get procs. We simply lose too much and gain too little.

Yes, agility to cloak will become superior.

In the latest version of the PTR, not only does the shadow portion of SS appear to be getting the additional crit from Subversion and Vicious Strikes, as expected. What more though is that the shadow portion appears to be getting the crit modifier from Vicious Strikes. Yet another buff. Math to come once I can absolutely confirm.

Edit: Yeah, it's definitely getting the 30% from Vicious Strikes.

Which, combined with the higher crit change, makes things something like this:

Physical / Shadow	Total Damage based on Physical	Total Damage	Chance of Happening
Hit / Hit	X + 1.11X	2400 + 1.11 (2400) = 5064	(1 - .5)(1 - .5) = 0.25
Hit / Crit	X + 2.369(1.11X)	2400 + 2.369 (1.11 x 2400) = 8711	(1 - .5)(.5) = 0.25
Crit / Crit	2.369X + 2.369(1.11(2.369X))	(2.369 x 2400) + 2.369(1.11(2.369 x 2400)) = 20636	(.5)(.5) = 0.25
Crit / Hit	2.369X + 1.11(2.369X)	(2.369 x 2400) + 1.11(2.369 x 2400) = 11997	(.5)(1-.5) = 0.25

(The 1.11 coefficient is including Ferocious Inspiration which I forgot previously since it obviously isn't present solo, and the 2.369 crit modifier is including the meta which I had simply forgotten previously, not that either terribly shift things. The main thing is the higher crit chance and crit modifier on the shadow portion)

So, yeah, that's an approximate 5064/4 + 8711/4 + 20636/4 + 11997/4 = 11602 average SS. About a 10% improvement over the previous PTR build, and something like a 55-60% improvement relative to the current SS. Quite delicious.

Nyth_ · 10/24/09, 4:07 AM

Originally Posted by eventually

The average for scourge strike in the sim is 15k, this includes all 4 possible outcomes being, hit hit, crit hit, hit crit and crit crit.

Which is "definitely inaccurate" as I pointed out earlier.

These are the numbers from wowmeteronline, which shows the average damage of the strike (factoring in both hits and crits, with a rather accurate crit rate)

Scourge Strike 356,763 6,151 36.2% (MAGICAL)
Scourge Strike 259,348 4,471 60.3% (PHYSICAL)

Average scourge strike adding up to 10.6k where the same gear gave 15k in the sim.

Sorry i had mistaken your first post to refer to max crits on scourge strike.

As for the crafted items. Yes it looks like leather is quite a bit better there. However in nearly all the tiers crafted items haven't always been very good for us, as i remember it.
I'm actually a bit more interested in the boss drops.