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Old 10/26/09, 12:58 AM   #1036
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
Ah. Simple enough.

So, 0.055 x 1.15 x 1.15 (BP) x 1.3 (CF) x 1.13 (EP) x 1.02 (BS) x 1.05 (Deso) x 1.2 (Impurity) x 1.03 (Ferocious Insp and equiv) x 1.35 (WP, so insert crit rate here) = 0.190950973. So a 1k AP proc would increase the damage by 190 per tick per disease, or 380 damage per 3 seconds - 127 dps gained from rolling. *

As long as the mob will live through two more rune cycles, it will then become worth refreshing in such a case. In an AoE scenario, it obviously depends on the number of mobs, but for something like Anub - with 5 mobs - you'll want to refresh immediately, so long as the diseases will tick at least once (currently) or twice (post patch).

*Which isn't to say that rolling will give you a free 127 dps per 1k AP proc you have. That's not how it works out. This isn't mean to prove the value of GoD or any such thing, but to simply show when, if you're using GoD and you didn't get all of your procs at the beginning of the fight, it's worth bothering to reapply diseases or not. And in almost every case, it probably will be, unless the boss is going to be dead/unattackable within the next 15ish seconds.

Not really worth adding a section to the OP on it, I suppose. Thought it would be a bit more circumstantial/difficult of a choice, but it would seem not. I'll probably just add a note to the FAQ (which will need a bunch of changing anyways) come patch day.

Last edited by Consider : 10/26/09 at 1:08 AM.

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Old 10/26/09, 1:16 AM   #1037
Jonneh
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Outland (EU)
I'd be interested to know exactly where it may be optimal to remove two points from the 3.3 standard cookie cutter spec, so that one could put them into IUP. I fine it too useful a talent to be without. Almost every fight would have you move at some point, I'm sure it eventually comes out as a dps gain.

BA or DC I shouldn't wonder. Even more annoying is probably that it'll be BA for single target and DC for aoe based fights.

I think its something that should probably always have a place in the first post.

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Old 10/26/09, 1:39 AM   #1038
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
For single target or multi target fights, you would want to take one point from Morbidity and one point from Bladed Armor. Morbidity is only a so-so talent currently, and will become even weaker next patch (thanks in part to the UB nerf, in part to the GoIT nerf, and in part to the different rotation producing less RP) - and in AoE situations, you don't use DnD more often then once every 20 seconds anyways, as Bensch showed some ways back (and as still holds true).

You can't take two points from it, otherwise you couldn't progress down the tree (and, besides, you wouldn't want to in AoE fights, even if it was otherwise possible) - thus the other point comes from Bladed Armor. BA is weaker then DC in both single target and AoE, and scales poorly with gear.

And, yes, such info will be in the "Optional Talents" section. On patch day ^.-

Edit: Actually, running it through the sims, we should just be 2/3 Morbidity all the time (a 15 dps gain is a 15 dps gain), putting that point into Bladed Armor (in a normal spec) making 17/0/54 the base/ideal spec, not 16/0/54. Then, for IUP, simply take two points out of Bladed Armor.

Last edited by Consider : 10/26/09 at 1:57 AM.

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Old 10/26/09, 6:49 AM   #1039
Bensch78
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by Consider View Post
Edit: Actually, running it through the sims, we should just be 2/3 Morbidity all the time (a 15 dps gain is a 15 dps gain), putting that point into Bladed Armor (in a normal spec) making 17/0/54 the base/ideal spec, not 16/0/54. Then, for IUP, simply take two points out of Bladed Armor.
I mentioned that before, and you discarded it because of the possibility of soaking RP and doing more damage with that soaked RP.

Nevertheless I think it would be the right choice.

Another sidenote: The "new" Unholy DW Top Spec right now is 15-0-55 + 1. You should change that in the OP. I simmed and tested it in Raids... with 15-0-55 + 1 being the winner in every situation right now. 3/13/55 simmed better a few weeks ago, but this has changed.

With that in mind and getting one point out of Morbidity, you could just Spec:

16-0-55 Having all damage-talents, using the spare point for some survival in Rune Tap

15-0-56 Get one point out of Morbidity and get IUP.

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Old 10/26/09, 7:33 AM   #1040
Sealpup
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
Frostwolf
Originally Posted by Bensch78 View Post
16-0-55 Having all damage-talents, using the spare point for some survival in Rune Tap

15-0-56 Get one point out of Morbidity and get IUP.
While these may be the best possible DPS specs for current patch, having 3/3 Morbidity is really helpful for Anub'arak and 2/2 Improved Unholy Presence for Northrend Beasts. Where else would you recommend taking 1 point for minimal loss of DPS?

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Old 10/26/09, 8:31 AM   #1041
Bensch78
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
You won´t do D&D every 15 Seconds, when doing Anub. You will do it every 20 seconds. You just don´t need that third point in morbidtiy.

As Consider mentioned, i did prove it a few weeks ago, that using D&D every 15 seconds is actually a dps loss because you just destroy your rotation.

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Old 10/26/09, 9:34 AM   #1042
zang1983
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Aszune (EU)
Maybe stupid question, but I can't find anything about Bone Shield usage. I've been refreshing it every minute, shouldn't I be doing this? I try to time it with Blood Tap, so it doesn't come at the cost of a SS.

Also, I find it strange that Necrosis is out of the talent spec in the OP, looking at the 3.3 spec. No points left for that? It looks better than some of the other talents taken, but I guess not then?

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Old 10/26/09, 10:05 AM   #1043
bigdan
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Gul'dan (EU)
Originally Posted by zang1983 View Post
Maybe stupid question, but I can't find anything about Bone Shield usage. I've been refreshing it every minute, shouldn't I be doing this? I try to time it with Blood Tap, so it doesn't come at the cost of a SS.
Use the Blood Tap / Boneshield macro provided on page 1.
Before fight, use it as late as possible, but you still want all your runes free when the fight acutal starts.
Infight, use it when all your runes are on cd.

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Old 10/26/09, 10:36 AM   #1044
Holocauste
Glass Joe
 
Holocauste
Tauren Death Knight
 
Thaurissan
Was looking at respeccing my dk for pure dps.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Some of the difficulties I encountered were:

1. Does wandering plague deal enough damage to justify the talent points spent in it?
2. Would black ice be more effective than 2 handed specialisation?
3. Since unholy dps also relies heavily on death coil, would it be more worth it to spend the talent points in impurity instead of necrosis?

On a side note, was wondering if unholy dps could ever compare to the other 2 trees without a ghoul.

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Old 10/26/09, 10:47 AM   #1045
knk
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Archimonde
Originally Posted by Holocauste View Post
Was looking at respeccing my dk for pure dps.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Some of the difficulties I encountered were:

1. Does wandering plague deal enough damage to justify the talent points spent in it?
2. Would black ice be more effective than 2 handed specialisation?
3. Since unholy dps also relies heavily on death coil, would it be more worth it to spend the talent points in impurity instead of necrosis?

On a side note, was wondering if unholy dps could ever compare to the other 2 trees without a ghoul.
It's clear that you're new on the forum, so please read all the FAQ / Original posts. All your questions are answered UNAMBIGUOUSLY.

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Old 10/26/09, 10:47 AM   #1046
Nefiir
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Eonar
Originally Posted by Holocauste View Post
... [a lot of questions already answered countless times]...

On a side note, was wondering if unholy dps could ever compare to the other 2 trees without a ghoul.
Even if you don't intend to read/skim/search through the entire thread, you need to read the OP. Most of the questions you ask are either explicitly answered there or at least hinted at.

As far as the ghoul goes, this is an answer you ought to be able to answer for yourself. Look at your own damage. How much comes from the ghoul? If you lost that portion of your damage, would you still be competitive?

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Old 10/26/09, 10:55 AM   #1047
Bensch78
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by Consider View Post
I | Latest News
Upcoming Changes section is back, this time for Patch 3.3.0, which is now live on the PTR! The new Scourge Strike is fully functional, at long last, leading to us finally being able to figure some things out:
  • 17/0/54 is the new spec of choice, as Epidemic and Reaping are back in!
  • Due to the large increase in SS damage, Glyph of Disease is now a must have, even if you ignore disease rolling.
  • Your rotation after your initial two rune refreshes (which are used to apply diseases with procs, more details below) becomes:
    SS > Pest > BS > SS > DC > HoW // SS > DC > SS > SS > DC.
  • Precise stat weights are still unknown, but essentially: Hit until cap > Strength > Expertise until cap > Crit Rating > Armor Pen > Agility > Haste.
I just have a question about your "new" top spec for 3.3.

How can you know this? The sim is anything but accurate, when looking at the numbers (An average SS of 14k is far to high).

Do you guys really think, there will be anything going live, which buffs our single-target-dps by roundabout 1.2k dps?
I just compared the numbers. 3.2.2 Unholy 2H is doing 8.4k dps, with the numbers coming from the sim, this would rise to 9.6k, without changing anything. With an ilvl 245 item, and my stats i usually use. (i.e. 2000 Str, etc.)

Please stop to propose specs and/or rotations without having accurate numbers to deal with. The only reason, that Necrosis looses is, that SS is far to good in the sims. Try a few sims with the numbers coming from 1.1.7.1, Necrosis wins there against DC.

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Old 10/26/09, 11:37 AM   #1048
Luna-tics
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Mannoroth
People are on the ptr testing SS and getting those numbers. Have you been getting anything different? If not, don't post saying everyone else is wrong without anything to back your information up. 3.2.2 you might be doing 8.2k dps but with the nerfs to other talents, that drops, which is why SS is doing more damage to make up for it. All you're doing is adding the SS dps to your old numbers and not accounting for the other nerfs. Unless you have proof from the ptr that the numbers other people are getting from the ptr are wrong, don't post.

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Old 10/26/09, 12:23 PM   #1049
akihex
Glass Joe
 
Minx
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Non-US/EU Server (EU)
Originally Posted by Luna-tics View Post
People are on the ptr testing SS and getting those numbers.
From the screenshot of a World of Log damage summary one or two pages back 10.6k average SS seem to be possible on the ptr and not 14k. And apparently the sim has been updated accordingly today.

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Old 10/26/09, 12:30 PM   #1050
Artamier
Banned
 
Orc Rogue
 
Firetree
I see that the Unholy forum has been updated on the main page and i seen the standard rotation was thrown up using GoD. still seem kinda confusing to me does anyone think they could clear this up for me?

Due to the fact that we will be taking Epidemic, Reaping, and Glyph of Disease, our rotation then becomes:
SS > Pest > BS > SS > DC > HoW
SS > DC > SS > SS > DC

Of course, this is after you already have applied diseases via Icy Touch and Plague Strike. Your opening two rune refreshes will be along the lines of:
PS > IT > BS > BS > SS > DC > HoW > DC
PS > IT > SS > SS > DC > DC

are these to seprate rotations or are they one full rotation all together, if so kinda confused on the order they should go in get it the rotation to work and im doing good amount less than im doing on the live server so im sure im doing it wrong.

Last edited by Artamier : 10/26/09 at 12:41 PM.

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