Fair enough and thanks for the input.

That's precisely why I asked. Not to argue, just to understand the reasoning.

(and FYI in case I wasn't clear, the testing I did was on the PTR)


**EDIT**

Thanks for pointing that out Consider. I was indeed using recount for the numbers so an additional 50% damage would have to be taken into account for the shadow damage SS deals now.

Again, I wasn't trying to argue with you, or with your formula. I just wanted clarification on why the 3rd rotation was necessary.

It might be me, but i've never had a problem with free GCDs to use.

Maybe some of you rerolled from casters in TBC where you continuously cast something, but I was once an Enhancement Shaman and other than stormstrike and shocks every 10 and 6 seconds respectively you were watching your auto attacks, windfury procs and totem timers.

Personally the fact you are not forced to cramp 7 attacks in a 10 second window with unholy is one of the main aspects that makes it so attractive to me. I'm not the raid leader, but I do consider myself one of the "tacticians" in our raid group, and often offer suggestions to what we can improve upon or what goes wrong during a fight. That leeway in GCD makes this job much easier for me.

Also don't forget that unholy has a LOT of damage going on that doesn't require the input of a button. White attacks / Necrosis / Blood Caked Blades / Ghoul / Unholy Blight / Diseases / Wandering Plague. That all goes on while you aren't pressing any buttons.

Pressing a button all the time does not mean you do more damage per second, you have to view things in context.
And if you don't enjoy "waiting" for runes to come up, you might simply not like the unholy spec.
In 3.3 it's only going to get worse, as a part of our rotation is: SS>SS>DC>SS>DC; that's 5 GCD or 7.5 seconds, in a 10 second window.
Same is true when you use Death and Decay of course, because you use 3 runes in 1 GCD.

About the glyph of Disease clipping. I've always noticed a strange occurrence.
In theory you only have 1 second left to refresh diseases with GoD, because diseases last 21 seconds, and a rotation takes 20 seconds.
When I use glyph of diseases however I often notice that I have more than 1 second remaining on diseases when I use pestilence (usually about 2). I don't use GoD that often, so it might just be an odd occurrence. But I noticed that last week when I was tanking ToC (Didn't change my glyphs and normally I have a pvp spec as 2nd spec, which includes GoD).

Maybe it's the rune cushioning acting weird, although that shouldn't keep happening.

Quick question, haven't seen any talk about trinkets lately and I was wondering if, given 3.3 weights and the SS change, it'd be worth it to use a Mjolnir Runestone over Comet's trail, until acquiring a second Death's Choice or the new trinket in ICC.

Going by pure stat weighting I'd assume either a runestone or the slightly better version, Needle-Encrusted Scorpion (one of the heroics, can't remember which one off hand).

edit: My lord I can't believe I typed what I did about the set bonus, sorry about that.

There is a thread on DK tanking (including details on each spec) here.

Pauses in your rotation might feel like a dps loss, but they're not. Every situation you describe involves waiting for a rune to come off cooldown, which is exactly what's supposed to be happening-- you're doing it right. To maximize your dps, you use all your resources as they become available. It's the same as a rogue waiting for enough energy to use the next ability. You use everything you have, and sometimes you have to wait for it to be ready again.

Now, if you're sitting with three runes ready to use for more than 2 seconds and you're waiting for something else to do a specific ability, then you're wasting available resources and losing potential dps.

I actually really appreciate this response because I was not interested in hearing "QQ". I really am trying to comprehend this class as much as possible and you pointed out one of my concerns: that I am losing DPS or doing something wrong. My only other char is my rogue that I raided with very heavily ("UBRS" , MC, Naxx 40, Sunwell, etc.) and you're right - I associated the DPS loss with "sitting still".

That said - one thing that DOES bother me with the waiting in the above rotation is that really dude... if you make ANY mistake at all (literally 1 second), you lose all of your diseases. The thing I don't get is, the rotation does work, but it gets cut so close... any movement, any... anything - and you have to start all over.

Is that OK? I suppose that phenomena was what prompted me to more thoroughly analyze why and it turned out to be the rotation itself having this miggling delays.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Also, for single target rotation - why not start with Icy Touch?? Seems a bit odd since you don't open with a ranged based attack.

One thing to note is the new dungeon trinket only procs on crits, not hits. This might hurt its uptime somewhat with the 4T9 nerf.

I don't think the new trinket's proc will be very good unless you have a significant amount of arpen on your gear already, until you've gotten a decent amount of arpen gear, DMC:G will likely be more DPS.

This depends a bit on the fight.

In an ideal situation you want to start with PS because that means Frost Fever will benefit from Rage of Rivendare. However, getting up your diseases earlier (and Ebon Plaguebringer with that for ranged) largely outbenefits that).

So it depends on the fight.

Beasts for example can pretty much be started from melee range, same for Jarraxus. So on those you start with plague strike.
Anub, Faction Champs and probably twins too. All start from range (especially the first), so i always start with icy touch on those. The extra 1-2 disease ticks i get with that out damage the bonus from Rage of Rivendare.

This is really minute damage in the end though, especially on boss fights. I tried to see the actual dps difference, but with all the random factors going on you really can not tell the difference on a fight that's longer than a minute.
That is why I often just start with Icy Touch even in melee range, but if you want to min/max to the 2nd decimal of your dps. Then start with PS if you start in melee, and start with IT if you start at range.

EDIT: Sorry if my last post seemed a bit aggressive. Didn't mean to, that question just gets asked a lot and people sometimes seem offended by the answer. I see you played a rogue before WotLK, so I can understand how you feel like sitting still is dropping your dps.
As mentioned before though, It's just part of the unholy spec. If you just use your resources as they are available you're always squeezing out the maximum of your dps.

The reason I ps first is also becuase I want my dots to line up in my intial rotation. when you icy touch from range your FF will be falling off 1-2 second if not more before your BP does which also runs the risk of one of your strikes losing a disease mod on the dmg

I would be quite interested in any parses showing what you say to be true, because the simulator (and simple napkin math) does not show it to hold up.

Just look at not taking Reaping. Reaping gives you 1 SS (let's say 12.5k dmg average in 3.3, at a moderate gear level) at the cost of 2 BS (let's say 3.5k each, for a total of 7k) every 20 seconds. That's ~92 dps per talent point. Necrosis would have to be accounting for about 1% of your dps per point to match that, and it doesn't even come close to that (it's more like .75%/point).

Or GoFF for GoSS. Let's say your average FF tick is about 1200, and that when you factor in WP procs from FF, it comes up to 1700. GoFF would then be adding 113 dps. GoSS gives you one SS (let's use that 12.5k number from before) at the cost of one PS + one IT (the first is about 4k average, the second about 3k, for a total of 7k) every minute, which equates to 92 dps (coincidentally similar to the Reaping number). GoFF is clearly superior.

So forth.

You can use the simulator for more precise numbers (although the ones I used are accurate enough to show the point), but what you say just doesn't add up. Not unless you have some math or some raid parses to the contrary.

_____________________________

As to the PS + IT discussion, does that really need to happen again? If you are starting off at range, it is better to IT. If you are starting off in melee range, you are better to PS. The difference between doing either one and doing the opposite in the same situation is as negligible as it gets.

It gets brought up every other week, I swear!

Personally, when I make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, I do the peanut butter first. I've tried the opposite, but I just couldn't taste any difference, and research from the finest taste testers show it to be minute, if existent at all.

Edit: My GoSS math would be technically incorrect, as I was assuming epidemic + GoSS, not simply GoSS (which changes it from 1 IT+PS for 1 SS every minute to 1 IT+PS for 1 SS every 20 seconds). But with the latter case you also have to factor in diseases always falling before reapplying, so the loss of damage there, and other junk. At any rate, disregard that part. GoSS (without Epidemic) might be better than GoFF (without Epidemic). But GoSS (with Epidemic) is definitely not better than GoFF (with Epidemic). The worth of Epidemic is another matter entirely.