Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 94

Lucke · 12/09/09, 10:02 PM

Bryntroll accounted for 7.2% of my dmg done on Saurfang, with 54 procs in approx 4min of fighting. While the proc appears to never crit, it had 100% hit (i.e. no resists) for an average of 3200ish dmg per proc.

• frmorrison · 12/09/09, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Immortalfire

A note on the new weapon, that bryntroll, It procced the same amount of times as Blood Caked Blade, and it the proc is modified by abilities. will post once this ToGC is done.

All melee hits can proc the Bryntroll's proc (BCB is a melee hit). It is affected by normal spell debuffs (Ebon Plague and 3% crit/hit), not spell damage, and cannot crit. It is also affected by all % damage increases, like Blood Presence, Ret Aura, Bone Shield, etc.

Jesabelle · 12/10/09, 2:49 AM

Originally Posted by Mericet

The new scourge strike appears to behaves like necrosis when it comes to val'kyr twins and empowered darkness/light. This can lead to some very interesting double crits. Recount shows my max scourge strike was a whopping 111,213 damage, and due to the way recount records the damage that's ONLY counting the shadow part of the damage, so the actual number from that 1 attack was probably closer to 130,000. Exercise extreme caution with threat if your tanks aren't way ahead of you by the time you get empower, a few lucky crit streaks will very quickly turn you into the threat leader.

I had a few Shadow Portions crit for 165k for Scourge Strike tonight, though was never in danger of pulling threat. But yeah, it definitely is double dipping on the buff. There was a lot of bitching about that tonight from the rogues in our raid who were expecting to be the new kings of damage with the mutilate changes, heh.

• frmorrison · 12/10/09, 2:59 AM

Originally Posted by Larisroth

In terms of an initial rotation it probably makes sense to go

IT PS SS BS BS
IT PS SS xx SS
xx SS SS BS Pest

This one works if you aren't having a lot of lag (like Mal Ganis).

To Consider, it seems a GoD and GoDD section needs to be added for each camp.

Consider · 12/10/09, 3:20 AM

It's not really a decision between the two so much as "Use GoD unless you are rather undergeared (which is increasingly difficult to be with gear being increasingly accessible) or have latency issues, in which cases use GoDD". Aside from that, GoD just seems superior in every way, even when you consider the specific nature of the individual ICC encounters.

Anyways, as such, I'm not quite sure I agree it deserves to be presented as a viable alternative and a matter of preference/playstyle. I will gladly add a subsection for its use, but only while stating that it is suboptimal unless you fit in the two aforementioned scenarios.

In other news, preliminary BiS list generated (thanks to Bjados), although very preliminary - it doesn't include Arthas loot (as it's still unknown), and it will change in other areas, potentially, for various reasons. I'm working on new stat weights for various gear levels, which should be as accurate as can be generated. Once those are out, a more perfect BiS list should be able to be found, although I wouldn't expect any huge differences.

On another note, the dps difference between the current gear level and absolute BiS is just ridiculous. We'll scale more in this tier then we have during the past two combined.

Valtiel · 12/10/09, 3:24 AM

Originally Posted by Jesabelle

I had a few Shadow Portions crit for 165k for Scourge Strike tonight, though was never in danger of pulling threat. But yeah, it definitely is double dipping on the buff. There was a lot of bitching about that tonight from the rogues in our raid who were expecting to be the new kings of damage with the mutilate changes, heh.

It's understandable, tho. I was on 16.7k dps on Twins HM without getting a single SS crit during Empowered Darkness (my best hit was actually higher than my best crit, 49k vs 48k) and that raised some eyebrows. Heck, I had almost 15k on normal without a single Empowered buff.

While UH dps seems excessively high at the moment, I don't see Rogues having anything to complain about, as they were leap and bounds ahead of other pures that would have easily beated them last week. Our best rogue topped mages on Jaraxxus.

What I found more interesting is that the loss of 4p9 didn't really affect me on AoE - I still managed to break 16k on Champs during the initial disease spread, which sort of surprised me.

I still feel the standard rotation has some edges to smooth - like the RoR issue. However at the moment I wonder if it's worth even trying to touch the 5 SS per 20 second formula. My experience last night and a brief tour of WoL shows SS being 30% of our dps and upwards - it was 39% on Twins.

A last random thought (I'm not very productive today) is that SS feels incredibly random. It can hit anywhere between 6 and 20k, which is sort of similar to what happens with OB for Frost at the moment - however the different crit chance and scaling of the shadow part, and the interaction with the other buffs put from raidmembers make it feel even more unpredictable.

Last thing I'd like to mention is Unholy Blight. If you check your logs and WoL, it seems to me that it's definitely less than a 1% dps increase per talent point - it's bloody hitting around 50 for me. If we need to find points to move elsewhere, it looks like a major candidate.

Valtiel · 12/10/09, 3:25 AM

Originally Posted by Consider

On another note, the dps difference between the current gear level and absolute BiS is just ridiculous. We'll scale more in this tier then we have during the past two combined.

This seems correct but it's based on the assumption that UH is untouched over the course of the next weeks, which I don't see as likely.

• frmorrison · 12/10/09, 3:35 AM

Originally Posted by Alatyr

Glyph of Disease currently does not refresh diseases with the benefit from Rage of Rivendare. To gain the benefit from RoR, diseases must be applied manually while Blood Plague is on the target. Once diseases are applied with the benefit from RoR, they can be rolled with GoD and still retain the benefit.

Initial:

PS – IT – SS – BS – Pest – BT/PS

SS – SS – SS

SS – BS – Pest – SS

Note that opening with Plague Strike would be required in this sequence so that Frost Fever would gain the benefit from RoR.

Is this poster correct about the RoR buff? So you have to "waste" 10 seconds of diseases by recasting PS IT to max the rolling dots?

Consider · 12/10/09, 3:39 AM

Of course, but there isn't any point in speculating. It is what it is right now, and there has been no actual sign (simply common sense and logic) to indicate anything will change. Don't worry though. I'll be thrilled when I come home one day, open up MMO-Champion, and find I have to redo the entire front page again.

Speaking of 4P T9, from what I could calculate, it will not be used in "AoE" BiS. It's still incredibly potent, of course, but so is 4P T10, and the greater stats push things over.

On another note, as my mind is going in many different directions at the moment, crit (almost) overtakes strength in BiS. It becomes very, very close. Unlike ArP (which, yes, does overtake Str, as previously discussed, but by such a slight amount, I still can't see it being worth the multiple target loss), crit is a different color, and crit benefits AoE. As such, it will change gemming a lot.

As well, agility similarly grows in strength - breaking the magical 2.0 number.

This likely means the recently posted BiS list will shift a moderate amount, although the current list should give people a rough idea if they're looking ahead.

Afabar · 12/10/09, 4:03 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Is this poster correct about the RoR buff? So you have to "waste" 10 seconds of diseases by recasting PS IT to max the rolling dots?

I have made some test on the dummy yesterday. I have removed all proc effect to be sure of the result. Unfortunately yes, you have to recast PS to have your Blood Plague affected by RoR.

Consider · 12/10/09, 4:12 AM

Weights in generalized gear, for some thought below. Everything is logical enough when you look at previous weights, factor in increased disease ticks (from GoD), 25% more Scourge Strikes (from GoD), Scourge Strike's ridiculous scaling with Crit and ArP, and ArP's ridiculous scaling with itself. I'm rather exhausted at the moment, but I'll toss these in the OP (and make the appropriate changes in other areas of the thread) tomorrow, and try and get a new BiS list to throw up as well. I should also have the set bonus weights available, although how those shift should be predictable enough.

Assuming, of course, there isn't anything blatantly wrong about them which I'm missing. Part of the reason why I'm going to sleep instead of immediately throwing them into the OP right now is specifically to let people chew on them for half a day to see for errors. I don't expect them to find any, but I'm certainly not perfect, and it is late. The variations in stats all make sense with the various gear levels, set bonuses, and the introduction of GoD instead of GoDD.

264/277 (ICC) mix, w/ T10 Bonuses:

AttackPower	1
Strength	2.94
Agility	2.13
CritRating	2.88
HasteRating	1.25
ArmorPenetrationRating	3.01
ExpertiseRating	4.21
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8%	6.62
SpellHitRating	-2.85
WeaponDPS	8.18
WeaponSpeed	441.56

(Not sure what spell hit is doing, but everything else is logical enough)

258 (TotGC), w/ T9 Bonuses:

AttackPower	1
Strength	2.94
Agility	2.06
CritRating	2.76
HasteRating	1.06
ArmorPenetrationRating	2.12
ExpertiseRating	3.26
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8%	5.5
SpellHitRating	-3.34
WeaponDPS	7.06
WeaponSpeed	323.53

(Once again, spell hit being spell hit, but everything else fits in line with logic and what was already known/accepted)

239 (Ulduar), w/ T8 Bonuses:

AttackPower	1
Strength	3.07
Agility	1.76
CritRating	2.39
HasteRating	0.99
ArmorPenetrationRating	2.09
ExpertiseRating	3.1
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8%	5.1
SpellHitRating	-2.64
WeaponDPS	7.61
WeaponSpeed	328.36

(Spell hit, etc, etc)

Edit: Just to be clear, the previous stat weights which are still in the OP were accurate at their time. Those were done pre-GoD, which changes things a lot (more than many realize), and weren't particularly differentiated in terms of gear, just set bonuses, due to the underestimation of scaling.

Valtiel · 12/10/09, 4:13 AM

Originally Posted by Consider

On another note, as my mind is going in many different directions at the moment, crit (almost) overtakes strength in BiS. It becomes very, very close. Unlike ArP (which, yes, does overtake Str, as previously discussed, but by such a slight amount, I still can't see it being worth the multiple target loss), crit is a different color, and crit benefits AoE. As such, it will change gemming a lot.

This sounds shocking considering it breaks one of the few rules about DKs that survived all incarnations of the class, but I'm not surprised; last night mashing on the totem pole I kept thinking "I need more crit because the shadow part isn't critting nearly enough". You really feel the dps skyrocketing with crits now.

As an unrelated note, is there any combat text addon out there that manages to merge the 2 hits from SS? Parrot merges them when both crits, but it keeps individual hits and crits separate.

Valtiel · 12/10/09, 4:18 AM

Originally Posted by Consider

Weights in generalized gear, for some thought below. Everything is logical enough when you look at previous weights, factor in increased disease ticks (from GoD), 25% more Scourge Strikes (from GoD), Scourge Strike's ridiculous scaling with Crit and ArP, and ArP's ridiculous scaling with itself. I'm rather exhausted at the moment, but I'll toss these in the OP (and make the appropriate changes in other areas of the thread) tomorrow, and try and get a new BiS list to throw up as well. I should also have the set bonus weights available, although how those shift should be predictable enough.

Ironic how as usual to make "arp attractive to UH too" they made it a godstat.

Looking at those numbers, I wouldn't regem to ArP since the difference is too thin and overall probably a loss once you factor AoE, but still it's a shocking change. In a way, it's also the perfect balance - once you consider ArP is going, probably the ideal situation is it giving a tiny edge on single target to compensate the aoe loss.

I'm suprised to see Haste so low, but I'm confident that it's also due to us dropping Necrosis.

pessadilla · 12/10/09, 4:59 AM

I would like someone to verify your calculations on weight stats; because according to those; 245 Justicebringer is better than 251 Quel'Delar, Might of the Faithfull. Even with us loosing Necrosis, I'd say uel'Delar is a better dps weapon. Would you consider this to be true and I'm missing something?

dr_AllCOM3 · 12/10/09, 8:32 AM

Originally Posted by Afabar

I have made some test on the dummy yesterday. I have removed all proc effect to be sure of the result. Unfortunately yes, you have to recast PS to have your Blood Plague affected by RoR.

It should be sufficent, if there's a BP from the other DK in your raid on the boss.

Originally Posted by Consider

T10 weights

Str is still the best stat, no matter what. The second you have to aoe Str pulls ahead.