Suggesting that it's a fine idea to pick up a weapon because you like the model in the context of a theorycrafting thread is pretty absurd. Your points are generally well-taken and it's a good rule of thumb that the more RP you can get from Revitalize, the more important expertise becomes. On your last Festergut kill vs. mine you had 128 RP gained from Revitalize while I had 464 - I sincerely doubt you would have had any 'dry spells' were you in my raid.

Logs for reference:
Yours: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Mine: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

So I obtained my 2-piece T10 last night and have been testing with the Reaping build. If my melee DMG is still above SS DMG does that mean that i do not have the gear requirements for the Reaping build yet? As i read that SS should be the top DMG attack for a reaping build. I am using the exact rotation listed on the main page and the reaping build from it also.

Hmm, very good point, I should perhaps have a little talk with our resto druids I appreciate the personal analysis. Revitalize aside though, that was an awful kill, an exercise in Murphy's Law, on my part and others. I was almost hoping for a wipe so I could not screw up so bad the second time.

Yes, the comment about the model was absurd, and kind of meant to be that way. If anything I'm trying to spur some discussion on the itemization of the Lich King weapons, and on expertise in particular which seems to be an area of discussion that hasn't had enough attention paid to. Specifically, "how much expertise is enough?" and now I'm thinking about how much does the value of expertise when enough RP is being generated to fill all GCDs with maintenance abilities and DCs.

Are you adding up the Physical and Shadow portions of the strike? World of Logs still has them separated and if I'm not mistaken, Recount still does too.

With the new Lich King weapons released I've been trying to figure out what weapon to go for next in a Non-Shadowmourne setup.

My sim is putting HC Bryntroll above HC Cryptmaker as an Orc, can anyone confirm this as the BiS list used to say otherwise.

Obviously [Glorenzelg, High-Blade of the Silver Hand] or [Monster - Oathbinder, Charge of the Ranger-General] are the ultimate goal,

but looking at the Lich King difficulty this will still be far off (Maybe allowing a second [Shadowmourne] to be created even before we kill LK HC).

hello there, what do you think about taking 2p of the tanking T10 set for fights when DnD is on top of use (or trash mobs)

+20% on DnD, do you think that it would compensate the lost of dps stats ?
i'll suggest to take legs and hands for expertise and hit on them

i'm pretty sure none dk dps had focused on that to test it so...
or maybe it will be always better to stay on 4pT9 for heavy aoe fights

what do you think ?

I actually thought of using 2pc + 20% bonus too for dps purposes. I already do so in my tankset and i can confirm they stack. That said, it might be worth it on trash, but the dps 4pc bonus as noted by Seylina is extremely good too, and you would have to drop it.

This isn't so hard to calculate, let's standardize using Anub parses with none of the mentioned set bonusses in action:

Ability

Death & Decay

Blood Plague

Frost Fever

avg %

~20%

~15%

~15%

Now before comparing stats on the tiers themselves lets calculate the value in an AoE fight:

4pc T10: 100% x 3% = 3% total damage increase

2pc Tank T10: 20% x 20% = 4% total damage increase

4pc T9: 15% x ~50% = 7,5% total damage increase


Conclusion: T10[277] > T9[258] > T9[245] > T10[264] > T10[251] > T10Tank

If anyone's interested in going more in depth about stats, feel free to question my math.

Lich King is an extremely AoE heavy fight. Sindragosa is as well to some extent, lots of Frost Tombs to AoE until the 30% phase hits.

Hello gentlemen.

My topic today does not deal with anything i've read on these forums before, but perhaps has been addressed prior...I could not find any information on the subject so if someone more knowledgeable knows the answer, I'd be happy to hear it.

Comparing 2 parses, the first is mine and the second is the other unholy dk in my guild, we have similar gear but that really has nothing to do with it. Basically my question concerns the gargoyle and how it chooses rather to melee or gargoyle strike and if you can prevent it from melee'ing.

WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

As you can see, on this particular fight - 25m Saurfang - his gargoyle did 4 more gargoyle strikes and melee'd 4 less times, for ~19000 more overall damage. Now granted this isn't a huge difference, but it is a difference nonetheless and I play this game on min/max mode. Also note for some reason my gargoyle lasted for 26 seconds rather than 30.

*edit* After posting this I also went to a dummy in SW and ran my regular rotation on it, gargoyle didn't melee a single time.

I am very interested in this development as well. I was comparing two of my parses where on Deathbringer I did about 10k dps but then on Festergut where I normally do more dps I was down to 9500 dps. One thing I noted was on the Festergut fight my Gargoyle did 26 melee hits. Where as on Deathbringer he did only 3. Very odd as I never really payed attention to this before.

The thing about ARP is that it scales heavily with how much you already have. Looking at your setup, you are currently gemmed primarily into ARP already, which could possibly be why it is giving you such a high EP value. EDIT: just ran the sim for myself, I think you may have something set wrong in your EP sim, I just ran the sim with your current stats from armory and got:

EP AttackPower | 1 (0.68 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength | 2.94
EP Agility | 1.32
EP CritRating | 1.88
EP HasteEstimated | 0.03
EP HasteRating1 | 2.71
EP ArmorPenetrationRating | 2.35
EP ExpertiseRating | 2.12
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 1.68
EP SpellHitRating | 0
EP WeaponDPS | 7.21
EP WeaponSpeed | 338.24
I ran a quick sim just to get a general idea, since I'm on a work computer at the moment, some values may be slightly off, I'll run a full length one in a min.

I did a DPS sim as well to see if the results match up, with your current ARP gem setup it is showing:
DPS| 9289
Total Damage| 334.41m | in 10h

I replaced all your ARP gems with STR gems and got:
DPS| 9594
Total Damage| 345.39m | in 10h

It could possibly be an incorrect rotation setting in your sim that is giving you the incorrect numbers, or the simulation time you are using is throwing off the numbers (if it is too short).

To add to the Gargoyle discussion:

I'm not going to post 10 or so links here, though you can browse basically all my logs through the guild calendar on WMO Draconic Savant on WMO I should be in just about every log there.

There's numerous cases of gargoyle values being all over the place. Here's the best two examples:

WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay - 24 ranged attacks, 2 melee.

WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay - 16 ranged attacks, 8 melee.

Around a 40k damage difference. Pretty damn significant really, especially when you consider the overall damage done by things like Unholy Blight, BCB, or Blood Strike for the sake of comparisons.

As I've experienced the gargoyle chooses to melee for the first few seconds after it's been summon if it spawns right on top of the boss. So basically the only way to avoid this is to summon while the boss is being moved as the gargoyle will spawn about where the boss was during summoning. Of course, that's not always possible and I guess it's probably a DPS loss to wait until the boss is being moved instead of summoning with trinket / runeforge procs up.

That really isn't consistent with my data. There was no movement involved at all on those Saurfang logs.

I checked the rotation again, and the reaping rotation is correct, so I increased the timeframe and got:

EP AttackPower | 1 (0.67 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength | 2.93
EP Agility | 1.4
EP CritRating | 2.09
EP HasteEstimated | 2.45
EP HasteRating1 | 3.52
EP ArmorPenetrationRating | 3.37
EP ExpertiseRating | 4.06
| Template | Reaping build UH
| Rotation | Unholy-Reaping
| Presence | Blood
| Sigil | Virulence
| RuneEnchant | FallenCrusader /
| Pet Calculation | True

I double checked the rotation, increased the hours and still got arp coming out as more. This is probably just because i'm gemming arp, but if I can manage to get by with arp gems for unholy, that would be good, because my main spec is blood and I just go unholy for aoe-happy fights and when ebon plague is needed.

[Delete the post please]

I noticed this a few week back and spent a few hours trying to figure out how to avoid this but it's quite tricky as it turns out. Size of the hitbox seem to affect it.

On a small hitbox like the target dummy or Saurfang it will mostly be a none issue. You can now and then have it get another cast of by summoning it close to the center of the hitbox, opposed to max melee range. Summoning at this position would, in my tests, 90% of the time lead to the gargoyle melee hitting just as it spawned and then fly out to range. If I summoned to far out and it would fly in, melee and then fly out, losing one cast (with the haste I had during testing). Only way to avoid the melee hit at all on a small hitbox had me run far far (15 or so yard) out of melee losing 1+ autoattacks or more.

On larger hitboxes it gets even tricker since the gargoyle seem to focus on the center of the hitbox and never fly far enough out to not be able to melee it.

I have given up trying to get the perfect gargoyle summoning of on all but Prof. Putricide pull. We usually pull him a short distance from the table where I get to start hitting him until he spawns the first puddles. As the tank moves him away from these is the perfect time to summon and have it only cast without getting melee hits.
(Link to last two raids 10m 25m reports, 2 gargoyles, one at start with 0 melees and one during BL burn with 1 melee)

I too am curious about this. I had spec'd into reaping and was using a 2p T10 and 2P T9 setup. My melee dmg was higher then my SS dmg on Saurfang. WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

My thinking is that even with 2P T10, it doesn't become worthwhile to spec into reaping until you've reached a certain ArmPen rating. (For the above log I believe I was at about 24% armpen) What the magic armpen number is when it becomes worth while to switch from 4p T9 into 2P T10 and reaping I don't know. Apologies, I know assumptions are frowned upon here. Doing the math is something I don't even pretend to know how to approach.

Any guidance, or realignment in thinking, would be greatly appreciated here.

Couple more notes, I'm on a mac so running something like DK gear optimizer isn't an option. My current armory does not reflect what I was wearing during the above log.

because the tooltip is somewhat deceptive and IIT (and subsequent talents) actually fires from IT and not FF.

Was wondering if anyone has noticed a dps drop from Bryntroll procs? There's some rumblings on the dps/dk forums on the wow site about the proc almost being cut in half. Has any experienced this yet? I'm reluctant to trust these reports, treating them the same as "Onyxia Deep Breaths More". And since there are no comments on here yet, I'm figuring it's just people getting bad RNG.

But, Nibelung also got nerfed, so I'm wondering if Bryntroll got mixed up in there as well. Just throwing this out there, so maybe some people can look over their logs, and see if they notice a significant drop in procs.

I just read about it this morning, so the only thing I've been able to do is a target dummy test, where it was 3.5% of my damage. But, target dummies are inaccurate, so I"m not taking those numbers to heart

edit: Just did a second target dummy test, this time around 10 minutes long. The Drain Life proc made up about 5.6% of my dps, which is typical. In my opinion, I think people are citing bad rng as a nerf. But it might be something we keep our eyes open for.

I noticed this too and after about 5 minutes of testing I believe that it can at least be attributed to no longer proccing off disease application or refresh. Before 3.3.2 but after the hotfix that took away scourge strike double procs it was most definitely proccing off disease application/refresh. This is no longer the case. As for the actual PPM, I have no idea if it's been changed.