Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, The Only Exception - Page 140

Armagedous · 08/11/10, 3:09 PM

Originally Posted by rocco1015

To put Ebon Plaguebringer on as many vile spirits as possible, thus allowing casters to burn them down faster. It is not to pad personal dps, but raid dps as a whole.

I am under the impression that most (if not all) guilds on H LK use soaks instead of killing vile spirits.

rh8452 · 08/12/10, 10:59 AM

That is correct.

There is no reason to use runes on pestilence on vile spirits during phase 3 aside from padding DPS meters, at least using the Paragon positioning strat (which most guilds use).

korsun · 08/14/10, 6:10 PM

Is this rotation still correct?

Initial: IT – PS – Pestilence – DnD – DC – HoW
SS – BS – BB – SS – DC – DC
SS – Pestilence – DnD – DC – HoW

I understand how this rortation works on paper, but the problem I'm seeing is the cool down time on DnD. None of the 3 talent specs ( Blood Sub-spec Without Reaping / Frost Sub-spec Without Reaping / Blood Sub-spec With Reaping) have Morbidity.

neomasterc · 08/15/10, 1:51 AM

Originally Posted by korsun

I understand how this rortation works on paper, but the problem I'm seeing is the cool down time on DnD. None of the 3 talent specs ( Blood Sub-spec Without Reaping / Frost Sub-spec Without Reaping / Blood Sub-spec With Reaping) have Morbidity.

Think of aoe as more of a priority. Spread diseases>DnD>BB.

sìyeg · 08/17/10, 8:32 PM

Originally Posted by neomasterc

Think of aoe as more of a priority. Spread diseases>DnD>BB.

I might be wrong but after you spread and DnD all of your runes would be on cd correct? So you couldnt BB right away so the DC in between would be fine or would they be done by then?

Aliocha · 08/18/10, 4:17 PM

It's a priority system, not a cycle.

So you put diseases on all the mobs, then when this is done, you use DnD, and when you did those two things, or when DnD is on cooldown, you use BB, and when none of the above are possible, SS or runic dumps.

Hodiste · 08/19/10, 12:53 PM

*Actual BiS has an incredibly minor amount of expertise; this is intentional. It is not worth capping exp. It just isn't - one quick glimpse at the stat weights will tell you as much. That said, if you run with high latency or multiple resto druids (or just have OCD and insist on having it capped), variations which force it are available. Just remember; those variations aren't actually BiS, technically.

I was curious. Why would High Latency or multiple resto druids make Expertise being worth capped?

Khaosknight · 08/19/10, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hodiste

I was curious. Why would High Latency or multiple resto druids make Expertise being worth capped?

High latency effects it because each attack that you cast that misses with high latency takes more away from your overall DPS then missing an attack does with low latency. As for Resto druids, I'm 99% sure its because of that talent of theirs that lets rejuv and wild growth ticks have a chance to restore/grant us 16 RP.

Hodiste · 08/19/10, 1:59 PM

Ahh ok, I figured as much for both. But I kinda still don't understand the logic behind the more RP from resto druids and that means we should be exp capped. I would think it should be the opposite.

ChaosReturner · 08/19/10, 2:42 PM

More RP from resto druids means that you will have less free GCDs, therefore misses and dodges are more costly. If your BS or SS gets dodged, you are losing an opportunity to cast DC instead of just an empty GCD.

Yubble · 08/19/10, 3:29 PM

I'm getting interesting results with my latest unholy sims - just wondering if anybody else sees the same...

kahorie's version 1.2.1.6

My standard 0-17-54 2h unholy build is doing less simmed dps than DW using the same build with 2/5 BI and 3/3 Nerves of Cold Steel - a DW derivative.

My 2h spec uses shadow's edge, my DW spec uses Bloodvenom Blade and Heroic frost giant's cleaver
Both specs are hit capped and exp capped

Priorty is: Diseases > BS > DC(max rp) > SS > DC > HoW

Blood pres, Sigil of Hanged Man, Dark Death - Icy Touch - Ghoul for glyphs

Make sure to test with similar gear lvl (i.e. no shadowmourne)

Krayken · 08/29/10, 7:24 PM

Originally Posted by Yubble

I'm getting interesting results with my latest unholy sims - just wondering if anybody else sees the same...

kahorie's version 1.2.1.6

My standard 0-17-54 2h unholy build is doing less simmed dps than DW using the same build with 2/5 BI and 3/3 Nerves of Cold Steel - a DW derivative.

My 2h spec uses shadow's edge, my DW spec uses Bloodvenom Blade and Heroic frost giant's cleaver
Both specs are hit capped and exp capped

Priorty is: Diseases > BS > DC(max rp) > SS > DC > HoW

Blood pres, Sigil of Hanged Man, Dark Death - Icy Touch - Ghoul for glyphs

Make sure to test with similar gear lvl (i.e. no shadowmourne)

I posted about this a couple of months ago, messing around with Kahorie's I noticed my Unholy DW spec did more damage than using SE or regular Bryntroll. As I have picked up better gear & 1H weapons the difference has become more pronounced. Since I'll never get Shadowmourne and most likely not get Heroic Brytroll short of getting Warmace of Menethil I suspect that DW will be the best Unholy DPS for me until the expansion (DW Frost is ~400DPS better with this gear but I stay Unholy for EPB since I am the only Unholy DK in the guild who raids regularly.)

Here are the reports from Kahorie's v1.2.1.7 using the standard 2H Frost sub-spec with SE and the same DW spec you mention (you can see my spec and gear on my character link):

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances			Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	%
MainHand	937484978	22.3	158597	7962.2	57584	35	4465.7	60158	36.6	9187.6	5836	3.5	40855	24.8	3123.8
ScourgeStrike	435769937	10.3	53979	8073	31145	55.7	5102.9	22834	40.8	12124	1974	3.5
Ghoul	390830226	9.3	394894	1318.6	244936	62	937.4	51472	13	1876.1			98486	24.9	656.5
DeathCoil	337070142	8	51677	6522.6	32741	63.2	4703	18936	36.5	9668.8	142	.3
BloodStrike	300135878	7.1	71811	4179.5	45736	61.5	3019.5	26075	35	6214.2	2615	3.5
Gargoyle	256341094	6.1	49385	5190.7	42985	86.8	4596.9	6400	12.9	9178.6	144	.3
Diseases.FrostFever	243363682	5.8	108922	2234.3	108922	100	2234.3									98.9
ScourgeStrikeMagical	240815052	5.7	53979	4461.3	31145	57.7	2820	22834	42.3	6699.9
Diseases.BloodPlague	205360725	4.9	109737	1871.4	109737	100	1871.4									99.5
Necrosis	182144642	4.3	158597	1148.5	158597	100
WanderingPlague	161801102	3.8	78982	2048.6	78982	99.7					230	.3
BloodCakedBlade	140859452	3.3	46075	3057.2	46075	96.3	3057.2				1759	3.7
Ghoul: Claw	131924695	3.1	90000	1465.8	78188	86.9	1404.5	11812	13.1	1871.6
PlagueStrike	91381824	2.2	18000	5076.8	10407	55.9	3212.5	7593	40.8	7631.9	608	3.3
IcyTouch	74794206	1.8	18000	4155.2	11312	62.7	2984.1	6688	37.1	6136.1	46	.3
Army of the Dead	48237548	1.1	334992	144	291056	86.9	141.7	43936	13.1	159.3
UnholyBlight	33706148	.8	51677	652.2	51677	100
DPS	11700(+/- 758)
Total Damage	4212.02m	in 100h
Total runic power used: 2216760 (0 wasted)
Threat Per Second	7871
Generated in	29s
Template:	Kray-2H
Rotation:	Unholy-ReapingLess
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	HangedMan
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances			Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	%
MainHand	777082532	18.3	199290	5588	46236	19.2	2784.7	92827	38.5	5722.2	41938	17.4	60227	25	1945.3
OffHand	482683208	11.4	197423	3519.6	44489	18.4	1742.3	92653	38.4	3580.9	43894	18.2	60281	25	1217.4
Ghoul	388048500	9.1	406860	1270.8	252363	62	903.8	52988	13	1806.9			101509	24.9	632.5
DeathCoil	317866233	7.5	52160	6094.1	32889	63.1	4382	19271	36.9	9016
ScourgeStrike	308204561	7.3	54000	5707.5	30104	54.2	3548.9	23896	43	8426.8	1539	2.8
Gargoyle	265771594	6.3	52007	5110.3	45287	87.1	4524.4	6720	12.9	9058.9
Diseases.FrostFever	225551732	5.3	108578	2077.3	108578	100	2077.3									99.1
BloodStrike	211416562	5	71959	2938	44415	60	2091.2	27544	37.2	4303.5	2070	2.8
Diseases.BloodPlague	189872430	4.5	109373	1736	109373	100	1736									99.6
ScourgeStrikeMagical	162573628	3.8	54000	3010.6	30104	55.7	1872.2	23896	44.3	4444.7
WanderingPlague	158346225	3.7	83174	1903.8	83174	100
Necrosis	150976687	3.6	199290	757.6	199290	100
Ghoul: Claw	127185345	3	90000	1413.2	78188	86.9	1354	11812	13.1	1804.9
BloodCakedBlade	110803013	2.6	58145	1905.6	58145	97.1	1905.6				1715	2.9
Necrosis(OH)	93765067	2.2	197423	474.9	197423	100
IcyTouch	69816481	1.6	18000	3878.7	11271	62.6	2778.4	6729	37.4	5721.6
BloodCakedBlade(OH)	68208302	1.6	57181	1192.8	57181	96.5	1192.8				2052	3.5
PlagueStrike	62122096	1.5	18000	3451.2	10006	54.2	2139.5	7994	43.3	5093.1	463	2.5
Army of the Dead	46914142	1.1	344912	136	300079	87	133.6	44833	13	152
UnholyBlight	31790865	.7	52160	609.5	52160	100
DPS	11803(+/- 712)
Total Damage	4249m	in 100h
Total runic power used: 2230400 (0 wasted)
Threat Per Second	7941
Generated in	36s
Template:	Kray-DW
Rotation:	Unholy-ReapingLess
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	HangedMan
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader /	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

rh8452 · 08/30/10, 5:41 AM

Dual-wield builds taking points out of black ice will do better on paper on a tank and spank patchwerk style boss such as saurfang or festergut. However on any fight with multiple targets you need to DPS (lich king, putricide, heroic 25-man halion) or the boss being out of melee range for any significant length of time (sindragosa, blood prince council), they should fall behind a bit due to diseases / death coil / DnD / blood boil not hitting as hard, and pets inheriting less AP due to the 1H weapons not having strength on them to scale with FC and raid buffs.

That isn't to say "don't ever DW", as the DPS loss isn't huge and some people find it more fun, but it won't give you more DPS on most of the heroic mode fights.

Knaledge · 09/04/10, 2:40 AM

One thing I guess maybe I am just... not getting... is the way the following is worded:

Although these specs do not have any specific free floating points to spend on whatever you choose, one can take points from Dark Conviction, the weakest single target dps talent, or from Necrosis, the weakest multi-target dps talent, at a relatively minor dps loss in favor of the utility provided by other talents:

I think what I'm getting hung up on (and hey... this could be the sleepiness talking) - if I'm in 2pT10 + 2pT9.5 and looking to talent a strictly AoE DPS spec... which talent is it that I'm supposed to be taking away from in order to pick up Morbidity?

I'm running 0/17/54 (for AoE) and 14/0/57 (for single target). This isn't so much a simulator question as it is a request for clarification.

SO - if I want to run 0/17/54 (for AoE)... I should... take points out of Necrosis? Because the above quote says it's the weakest multi-target DPS talent? Or does it mean that it IS a multi-target DPS talent and, therefore, I shouldn't take points from it?

As in - 0/17/54 is thereby not necessarily "the" AoE DPS spec since you don't have "the weakest single target talent" (Dark Conviction) to drop points from?? Which leads me to...

This is especially curious to me when I consider trying to go for a 14/0/57 spec for AoE. So now what? Now, in this case, I DO have points in both Necrosis and Dark Conviction and it seems like (at least to me and based on the quoted item above)... Dark Conviction is the "weakest single target DPS talent" so - does that mean it is a strong/strongest multi-target DPS talent? And I should STILL take points out of Necrosis?

Sorry if this seems a bit redundant - I just am somehow having a hard time wrapping my head around the train of thought presented in the quoted item. It's as if it almost assumes that, regardless of AoE or single-target nature of your spec, "everyone" reading is 14/0/57 and the quote is tailored to that - seemingly ignoring/abandoning the 0/17/54 spec just above it. As if everyone is running a 14/0/57 spec with Morbidity and another 14/0/57 without Morbidity.

Thanks for the help!

Trath · 09/04/10, 4:47 PM

To play a bit of devil's advocate and answer your question at the same time, let me present you with this:

As far as Blood Boil, DnD, and your diseases (i.e., all of your AoE capabilities) are concerned:

1. Necrosis affects 0/3, as it only adds to your melée auto-attacks.
2. Dark Conviction affects 2/3, as both Blood Boil and DnD may crit.

Which do you think you should take for an AoE spec?

Malkiah · Yesterday, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Trath

To play a bit of devil's advocate and answer your question at the same time, let me present you with this:

As far as Blood Boil, DnD, and your diseases (i.e., all of your AoE capabilities) are concerned:

1. Necrosis affects 0/3, as it only adds to your melée auto-attacks.
2. Dark Conviction affects 2/3, as both Blood Boil and DnD may crit.

Which do you think you should take for an AoE spec?

answer: dirge... which, given GCD constraints and runic regeneration without it, is one of the most useless talents you can buy, at least in my personal experience. i never have a gap in my strike mashing on single target when i don't have enough RP for a DC (except for maybe like 2 seconds out of every 30 or so) - unless you're finding yourself actively and consistently RP starved, the only thing Dirge does in my experience is make people think they need to RP dump more than they really need to, and sacrifice Strike time to do it.
though obviously that's going to be based on your personal style - i assume *some* people most find the spare RP very useful, or else Dirge wouldn't keep showing up on builds.