Melchior

I think it's pretty certain that between the large increase in Scourge Strike contribution and lowered DC contribution (through IT glyph and UB changes) that pretty much all variants of DW UH are being put to rest.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Junon.png

 

Consider

If the DW information is incorrect or now outdated, I do apologize. As I've probably said in the past, DW isn't my forte, and until it does superior dps, not something I'm particularly interested in, so I just go by what others tell me. I'll look into it and correct it as necessary over the next couple days, most likely. Not that it matters that much, with 3.3.0 pretty much gutting it (relative to 2H, anyways).

Anyways:

• Army of the Dead: The cooldown on this ability has been reduced from 20 minutes to 10 minutes. Army Ghoul damage dropped by 50%. Cannot be used in Arenas.
• Raise Ally: The cooldown on this ability has been reduced from 15 minutes to 10 minutes. Cannot be used in Arenas.
• Rune Strike: Threat generated by this ability increased by approximately 17%.

Only the first of the three really affects dps. Assuming Night of the Dead is cut in half, that means half the CD and half the damage. Better in some cases, worse in others. Just depends on the fight.

Who is John Galt?

 

TigrisFrostmane

I wonder what Night of the Dead is gonna do now, with regards to Army of the Dead.

Maybe it'll increase ghoul damage by 50%?

 

stormspirit

Is it possible to run 15/0/55 +1 DW and the new 2H spec through some sims and post the data?
I don't have the means to do it atm.

 

• frmorrison

The most likely idea is the cooldown will be reduced by 4 minutes. Shaman have the same issue with the Fire elemental (cooldown is 10 minutes and glyph is -10 minutes off cooldown).

I prefer the new shorter cooldown, since as Unholy you can use it between attempts @6 minute cooldown.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Denrire

 

Soilworker

Ive been 2h blood for a long time but was thinking switching to DW now. So Im curious as to why DW will be gutted? Might have to change my mind about the change

 

Bullshifter

DW Unholy isn't truly being gutted. In fact, generally speaking, it will be buffed by the change to Scourge Strike as well when the dust settles. The issue is the fact that DW relies on better white damage and more Necrosis and BcB damage (relatively speaking) to make up for the fact that Scourge Strike on live hits like a wet noodle with a one hander. The changes to Scourge Strike will most likely increase DW Unholy's dps overall- but the change increases 2 Handed more. The heavier base in weapon damage of the strike favors 2H. The increased damage from SS favors spamming it, utilizing talents like Epidemic and Reaping, which further separates the two specs. I've really enjoyed DW Unholy in 3.2, but it will be hard to rationalize not going 2handed, when they will have equal AoE, and 2handed will have measurably better single target dps, all with basically the exact same playstyle, if things go live as they are now.

 

Larisroth

While that's certainly true, cutting the damage in half does reduce the number of situations where you can use it during the fight and it's impact when used pre-pull.

In other news, using the new simulator with a startup sequence and then a fixed rotation, I get on repeated short 200 second fights the GoD and the GotG within about 50 dps of each other for both 4t9 and 2t9+2t10 setups, and both death's choice trinkets. With all the breakdowns looking about right. I actually think the setup is favouring the GotG slightly as the simulator doesn't actually seem to reset everything properly when using the the many fights option.

The feral druid is a different beast altogether.

 

Ryûuk

Bit of a sad change for the army of the dead, will it still be worth using during a phase transition or short pause? I generally use it at the start of a fight, perhaps with NotD UH could use it twice a fight? If its a long one with phase transitions (like Beasts)

 

Yogi226

Well, I have a question regarding current stat values and trinkets, I ran through quite a bit of this thread and couldn't find a comparison between Greatness and Comet's Trail, unfortunately, I don't believe WoWhead takes into effects the procs of the trinkets, and I'm curious as to which is superior currently. My other slot is occupied by DV so, I'm just trying to iron this atm.

 

neomasterc

Quick question about agi stat weighing.
The agi stat weighing is 1.05, but does it matter if you have 4p t9 or not?
Because crit's stat weighings went up, so would agi's go up too? or is it going to stay the same?

 

Jonneh

its important to remember that we need something like 62.5 agi for 1% melee crit (and it gives no spell crit), if memory serves. Very inefficient in terms of item utility. Thats why there are very few competative leather pieces for us, which is probably for the best.. since all the rogues, enhancement shamans, hunters, retri pallys, warriors and feral druids all already want the best in slot leather

 

Heyoo

Does Army of Dead have fixed amount of damege it does or it use actual ap you have when summoning it?
Whould that make it better to use after gargoyle summon (ERW would be used)

 

Vinclass

This is true but remember, the shadow portion double dips on crit, so while spell crit is more valuable, even if only the phsyical portion crits, the shadow damage is still increased.

 

tooyoung00

Question regarding HASTE in 3.2

Is there cap for haste? (Probably not cap... but more than necessary)

I can get around 500 haste.

Just wondering if its too much haste.

 

• frmorrison

There is a cap for haste, but you will not reach it (something like 2k haste rating). More haste the better in 3.2.2, but in 3.3 haste goes down in value a lot due to the change in rotation.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Afabar

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the testing you quoted was on a PTR version where Subversion was not applied to Scourge Strike magical part explaining the difference of crit percentage.

 

Consider

Sorry for the slow response: You would be correct. I could have sworn it was already there, but perhaps I deleted it at one point for one reason or another. It's there now.

Also added the AotD/NotD/etc changes. Tweaked the wording of some areas of the upcoming changes section, as parts of it were somewhat less clear than I would have liked. Probably won't edit again until new changes are introduced or the patch goes live.

Speaking of AotD, to answer a question: yes, it will be worth using during a phase change. On any fight which lasts less than 6 minutes or has no period of time during which you wouldn't be attacking otherwise, it's a nerf. On any fight lasting over 6 minutes and which has a period of time (phase change, for example) during which you wouldn't be able to be dpsing anyways, it's a buff. In terms of TotGC. that would make it a nerf on Jaraxxus and Twins, while a buff on Beasts, FC, and Anub. A wash overall, in my opinion.

Edit:
Kahorie's doesn't include 'on use' trinkets because unlike trinkets with procs, it's very easy to calculate their AP value. It has nothing to do with 'on use' trinkets being bad (although, generally speaking, they do tend to be inferior to their proc equivalents, but that's simply due to how Blizzard itemizes them).

Mark of Supremacy gives 1024 AP for 20 seconds every 2 minutes. 1024 x (20/120) = 170.67 AP. Simply add that, on top of the hit, to your character sheet in the sim, or what have you.

Assuming you can use all of the hit, MoS is excellent. Considering it gets you about half way to the hit cap all by itself, most people find it excessive, and as such pursue other options. That said, DMC: D is kinda bad, so as long as you can fully utilize approximately 60 or so of that hit rating, MoS will win out. You're logged out in your tanking gear, so I have no clue whether or not that's the case.

Who is John Galt?

 

wingwraith

Ah, hadn't thought to just add in the avg AP of the proc to the sim. ty

I don't think DMC: D is represented properly in the sim and/or EP calculator. (or I'm missing something)

when I run EP values on it i get:

EP: | DeathChoice | 33939
EP: | Comet | 26969
EP: | Greatness | 22727
EP: | DarkMatter | 21515
EP: | Victory | 19696
EP: | GrimToll | 16363
EP: | DCDeath | 10606

However, I'm currently simming @ 8054 dps in my gear w/ DMC: D
When I swap it for GrimToll (and adjust stats accordingly), dps drops to 7976.

My Armory is displaying dps set now.

Edit: With the proc and hit rating from Supremacy manually added into the sim, I get 8004 dps. But would probably be higher if I can reitemize to use the excess hit.

 

insane_machine

Well, with AotD doing half the damage I'm not sure how much of a buff it really is to manage to summon 2 in some odd fight. I mean, generally speaking, two 3.3 armies would do as much damage as one current, for double the effort.

Then on Beasts, a common heroic kill would be at 7minutes or a bit less, so I would assume the cooldown would be ready around the middle of Icehowl phase. Maybe the stars would align every odd kill and get a charge close enough to not have to run to but far enough to not have to move out and then you have time to summon till he crashes.

I don't know, no matter how I twist it, it looks like a nerf in almost all cases. At least it will provide a bit more consistency between progress tries on bosses, since you'll probably have it ready every try and not every second.

 

Nyth_

I think with the damage halved on AotD, that the 6 second cast time is simply not worth it halfway into the fight. Unless there is some special situation of course which disallows you to fight for 6 or more seconds (phase change or melee aoe).

I think the primary benefit of this change should be seen as the fact we can now use army at the start of each fight. That's when i personally try to use it most of the time (again exceptions exist), as that means I dont lose dps time.

 

Silandra

Seems that popping army at half damage for 6s is almost always a DPS loss regardless of when you do it midfight
Log I'm using Here
Popped during an opposite color blast for a pseudo-shield wall effect, it did 79566 damage. Effectively, I was doing 13261 DPS for that 6s. Throughout the encounter, I averaged 11428 DPS, or ~1.6k less than when I popped army. Halving its damage will put it at ~7k DPS, a good 4k below my personal DPS.

And yes, I know I'm blood there: Unless the ghoul glyph effects it, I have all the relevant talents, barring the lower CD.

 

Skullxlord

In a sense the outcome of the "Nerf" or "Situational Buff", as ever you personally consider it, will be dependant on the

fights in Icecrown to be honest. We can perceive it as either a time saver (this may enable us to use it on EVERY fight

pre pull), or this may slightly hurt us, for example: I use AOTD on Icehowl right during transition from the twin worms,

which disables me from using it on Jaraxxus. So this change can either translate to being a spread out dps from AOTD

ballance (AOTD used on ALL fights), OR lets say if we do a boss in IC every 3 mins (Highly unrealistic) then it may

actually hurt us. In the end, I believe that it may be logical to make a minor compedulum when to use AOTD in

Icecrown in order to be able to use it EVERY fight, or at least for the majority of them, and for it to be effective.

 

Archonel

I'm looking at it not from the "I get to use it every fight" perspective, but more from the "where can I summon it again so i don't lose damage" perspective.

As it stands, I get to use AotD on all fights in ToC/ToGC without issue if I so choose. All unholys should be able too, or come extremely close.

I'm not incredible with the math, but I'm near positive that a simple cast reduction baked into NotD would open a few doors . A 3sec channel on AotD would make that window to summon your second pack not so narrow.

I can't seem to find the AotD thread to get its current dps gain if summoned in combat.