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Old 10/07/09, 1:33 AM   #31
Bloody_sorcerer
back in my day, we tanked uphill in the snow
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Malfurion
Originally Posted by Gearbox View Post
When you do get around to tweaking the buffed diseases for GoD rotations, will that take into account the 4pt9 bonus as well? Curious to see if it will show the set chestpiece topping the Titanium Razorplate in some situations due to the potential for critical ticks.

Thanks for the great work so far!
Yes, the goal is for all stats that roll with the diseases to be taken into account for both disease damage and things like 4T9. Currently, GoD rotations (and DRW) are using a pretty simple approach to maximum stats, which is to use all on-use effects (trinkets, UA, things like that) combined with whichever one proc results in the highest damage for the given ability. Unfortunately, this doesn't account for the rather frequent cases of multiple strong procs occurring at the same time (ie pretty much any proc plus FC plus Sigil of Virulence), which will result in a slight undervaluing in these circumstances. Note that the current GoD implementation is not rolling crit values for 4T9, which will result in crit being somewhat undervalued. Note that none of this impacts gargoyle calculations currently, as I'm putting that off until I can nail down some other issues with gargoyle; namely, in-game they seem to cast quite a bit fewer gargoyle strikes than they should; over their 30 second duration, I'm regularly getting just ten gargoyle strikes per usage with zero haste equipped, when I should be getting closer to 15. As such, I need to do more thorough testing to better account for this; it seems as though the gargoyle spends the first 5-6 seconds just flying up before it starts casting, but that doesn't fully account for the total ten seconds of cast time that seem to be disappearing.

In regards to filters, I actually know embarrassingly little about them; questions or issues with them can be competently answered in the main rawr thread (http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t21713-r...leased_10_6_a/).

Originally Posted by Esoth View Post
Torture/terrorism/war/taxes? Whatever. But if this motherfucker doesn't realize why the heroic strike change is complete shit...
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
STOP SHITTING UP THE THREAD MALAN

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Old 10/07/09, 1:45 AM   #32
Bulldasious
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Rexxar
I just got 2.2.20 and it shows the gear I am wearing on top in every slot. The best gear is not on the list. Do I need to update the cache from amory or am I just missing something simple.

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Old 10/07/09, 1:57 AM   #33
Bloody_sorcerer
back in my day, we tanked uphill in the snow
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Malfurion
Check your filters; there was a release that was (briefly) up that had most of them disabled, apparently. You can either enable relevant ones, or just enable the ALL filter.

Originally Posted by Esoth View Post
Torture/terrorism/war/taxes? Whatever. But if this motherfucker doesn't realize why the heroic strike change is complete shit...
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
STOP SHITTING UP THE THREAD MALAN

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Old 10/07/09, 4:07 AM   #34
Conq[SUN]
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by sirpwnalot View Post
I have enabled everything, but I am not getting my dragon's eye jewlcrafting gems available from the "equip custom gemming" window.
Had same problem. You have to go to Filters -> Options -> Disable BoP Jewelcrafting (Uncheck it).
It seem checking ALL in filters does not influence these "Options" settings.

On another note. Where can I find discussions on the tankDK-module?

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Old 10/08/09, 3:42 PM   #35
Laraque
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Silver Hand
I believe that DC and IT use the spell GDC rather then the melee GCD. While both have a base of 1.5 seconds, haste will shorten the spell GCD. Therefore I have 2 questions:

1) Does Rawr take this into account when calculating the value of haste for us?

2) Can the Rotation Viewer function take this into account when calculating the duration of a rotation?

While I do not think we will ever have enough haste to get down to the 1 second spell GCD cap, I do think we can shorten a 10.5 second rotation down to a 10 second rotation...which will probably be a larger factor with the next tier of gear when we get a buff for having all our runes on cooldown.

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Old 10/08/09, 4:38 PM   #36
Bloody_sorcerer
back in my day, we tanked uphill in the snow
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Malfurion
Originally Posted by Laraque View Post
I believe that DC and IT use the spell GDC rather then the melee GCD. While both have a base of 1.5 seconds, haste will shorten the spell GCD. Therefore I have 2 questions:

1) Does Rawr take this into account when calculating the value of haste for us?

2) Can the Rotation Viewer function take this into account when calculating the duration of a rotation?

While I do not think we will ever have enough haste to get down to the 1 second spell GCD cap, I do think we can shorten a 10.5 second rotation down to a 10 second rotation...which will probably be a larger factor with the next tier of gear when we get a buff for having all our runes on cooldown.
Calculations take it into account, but due to a software limitation, the rotation viewer cannot display it. The program dynamically calculates actual rotation duration based on presence, haste, and avoided rune-based attacks (which it treats as always worth repeating). Unfortunately, the rotation viewer can't take this into account.

The 4T10 bonus will almost certainly be treated as a flat 3% damage increase, as uptime will almost certainly be 100% for virtually all specs.

Originally Posted by Esoth View Post
Torture/terrorism/war/taxes? Whatever. But if this motherfucker doesn't realize why the heroic strike change is complete shit...
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
STOP SHITTING UP THE THREAD MALAN

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Old 10/13/09, 2:27 PM   #37
Daeluin
Purveyor of Cursed Seals
 
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Blood Elf Warlock
 
Mal'Ganis
At some point I was in the same situation as a previous poster where it was suggested by Rawr that Razorice/Razorice was a better enchant setup, which I realized must be wrong, and in fact it was due to the model thinking you could have 2 stacks of RI. That stopped, but now it is suggesting FC/FC. I know that dual FC will give you better uptime, though I am wondering if dual FC is being handled correctly by Rawr, since at a glance it seems to be giving an inordinate amount of dps gain for FC offhand. Any clarification on FC/FC modeling?

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Old 10/13/09, 5:42 PM   #38
Yellowsix
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by Daeluin View Post
At some point I was in the same situation as a previous poster where it was suggested by Rawr that Razorice/Razorice was a better enchant setup, which I realized must be wrong, and in fact it was due to the model thinking you could have 2 stacks of RI. That stopped, but now it is suggesting FC/FC. I know that dual FC will give you better uptime, though I am wondering if dual FC is being handled correctly by Rawr, since at a glance it seems to be giving an inordinate amount of dps gain for FC offhand. Any clarification on FC/FC modeling?
I actually just did a lot of testing around weapon enchants for the new simulator tool that I'm working on (see this post here for more details: DW Builds 3.2 -Revenge of the Offhand, the link to the simulator itself is: Team Robot WoW Simulator).

My simulator also does gear comparisons similar to rawr, but I use a different technique. Nevertheless, I'm sure that they have run into similar problems with weapon enchants:

If you average out the FC proc, you get nearly 100% up-time (if you don't do super-crazy statistics stuff). In practice though, the randomness will cause it to drop off here and there. Thus, when I do my DPS estimates, I get a very low estimate for putting a 2nd FC enchant on, because it doesn't increase the up-time, if at all. In the actual simulation, you get a little more of a boost than the estimate says.

Nevertheless, running with FC/FC doesn't do much for you. You're always better off with Razorice or Cinderglacier on the OH for any DW spec.

I actually ran a bunch of simulations with just razorice, dual razorice, just cinderglacier, and dual cinderglacier, for both frost DW and unholy DW specs. I use that cached data to estimate the value of weapon enchants, and with no contest, it came out to:

frost DW: FC/Razorice
unholy DW: FC/Cinderglacier

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Old 10/14/09, 12:50 AM   #39
Bloody_sorcerer
back in my day, we tanked uphill in the snow
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Malfurion
Rawr is handling all of the weapon enchant proc effects as stackable, which is clearly problematic, as it doesn't reflect the diminshed value of the second FC enchant or the greatly diminished value of a second razorice enchant. It's something I'd like to fix eventually, but since runeforges are practically a given for the DW specs, it's pretty low priority.

Originally Posted by Esoth View Post
Torture/terrorism/war/taxes? Whatever. But if this motherfucker doesn't realize why the heroic strike change is complete shit...
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
STOP SHITTING UP THE THREAD MALAN

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Old 10/14/09, 3:11 AM   #40
Dev93L
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Shadowsong
I hope this is not a stupid question, I've searched every thread I could think of to search. How accurately does Rawr model set bonuses?

As an example, I have a DW DK, 0/53/18. I have 4 piece T7. I have enough badges to purchase the T9 shoulders.

Rawr evaluated these shoulders as only a 6 unbuffed DPS upgrade, despite the new shoulders having almost 60 more attack power, more hit, crit, etc. I tried the correct color gem to make sure it was not breaking my meta, and so on.

Is there something I'm doing wrong here? I sincerely apologize if so. Maybe the 4t7 is a lot better than I originally thought. I know I do throw a lot of Frost Strikes out, but since I'm usually capped on RP until I go to dump, I couldn't imagine it making that big of a difference.

I have not done an in depth buffed dps analysis yet, as I am in a new guild and unsure about exactly what buffs will be provided. I hope that does not totally invalidate my findings. I'm (obviously) new to the tool.

Last edited by Dev93L : 10/14/09 at 3:20 AM.

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Old 10/16/09, 8:56 AM   #41
Bllets
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Stormscale (EU)
Was thinking if you were planning to introduce so it's possible to check specs against several targets?

I've seen it in other classes Rawr's, and i think it could be a nice addition, since we don't see many single target fights these days. And several targets benefits other stats more then others, specific sigils over others and so on.

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Old 10/16/09, 1:27 PM   #42
testor
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Malygos
Glyph of rune strike correctly implemented?

When adding glyph of rune strike, my threat actually goes down 1 point versus not activating it at all.

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Old 10/16/09, 10:10 PM   #43
frozenkex
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Hmm for some reason while im under hit cap, it prefers 10str + 10 crit over 10str + 10 hit, kind of weird, since it should be no brainer that under hit cap, hit>crit. Maybe the 4piece t9 bonus puts crit rating value too high.

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Old 10/19/09, 7:26 PM   #44
Shazear
Piston Honda
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Malygos
Originally Posted by testor View Post
When adding glyph of rune strike, my threat actually goes down 1 point versus not activating it at all.
Are you referring to the DPSDK model or the TankDK model? Assuming that you mean Tank DK because you're referring to threat, there is some valuation for Glyph of Rune Strike. You can argue that the current implementation undervalues 10% crit for rune strikes. but in 2.2.22 & 23 both have a value for Glyph of RuneStrike.

I am currently working on refactoring how threat and abilities are used within the Tank model, so we may see an improvement in future releases, but I don't have anything that is specifically targeted at changing the value of this Glyph.

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Old 10/20/09, 10:45 AM   #45
Evilbunny
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Zuluhed
Is there a Tank DK thread for rawr? I have noticed a number of issues (like sigil of virulence addings 600 strength and the relative stat value of stamina being stuck at 1) but I don't want to clutter up the DKDPS thread if possible.

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