Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Death Knights

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10/19/09, 3:13 PM   #26
Yellowsix
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by prime311 View Post
Physical miss % stays at 5% even when I'm capped. Very difficult to tell when I'm under hit cap. Other times I have seen this change, but I've never seen 0 miss chance even when capped. Just strange things going on in general here.
"Physical Miss" rolls up both misses and dodges. So you would need to be both hit and expertise capped for it to display as zero. My goal was to "boil down" stats to the ultimately meaningful numbers on the UI, thus why you don't see total strength or agility, and why misses and dodges are combined, since they have an identical effect on your DPS. That said, splitting miss and dodge on the UI may be a better choice to facilitate choosing gear.

But rest assured that your miss and dodge rates are being modeled accurately -- I just tested this quite a bit.

Originally Posted by prime311 View Post
Is there a way to determine stat weights based on talent/gear?
This is on the to-do list, but not implemented yet.

Originally Posted by prime311 View Post
Would it be possible for gem calculated DPS to account for socket bonuses?
Unfortunately the armory does not provide sufficient data for socket bonuses. I can tell what socket bonuses you have active when you load your particular character, but I cannot determine the socket bonuses for random item XYZ from the armory. It's a strange omission on the armory's part. Thus, I just ignore socket bonuses entirely. It doesn't significantly impact DPS though, so coming up with some way to build up a database of socket bonuses is a pretty low priority.

Originally Posted by prime311 View Post
When I use a saved version of a character it doesn't save the buffs. So everytime I go in or switch specs/gear/etc.. I have to manually turn Dranei presence off. COuld saved version of characters also remember current buff settings? Also, if we could save different buff settings(for 10 man and 25 man as example) that would be helpful.
I'll make sure to take the draenei aura out of the default "full buffs" for horde characters. A feature to save buff sets would be nice -- I'll put that on the future feature list.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/19/09, 3:17 PM   #27
revulva
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Suramar
Edit: looks like Yellow answered everything already.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/19/09, 5:05 PM   #28
Bensch78
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by Yellowsix View Post
I double-checked, and bladed armor seems to be accurate, but BCB was actually hitting too hard with the off-hand. I have fixed that, not sure if it went into the update, or will be available with the next update in a day or two.
It seems to be in the sim actually. I don´t get those weird results as before with Dual-Wielding being 200 dps ahead of 2H.

My sims are now more in line with the results of Kahorie´s simulator. But with my gear Kahorie´s Simulator values 2H > DW. With your simulator DW > 2H.

And i just want to know, how this could be.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/19/09, 5:32 PM   #29
neomasterc
Piston Honda
 
neomasterc's Avatar
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Windrunner
I dont think the stat weighings are correct.
As an unholy DK, it rates banner of vicotry over bandit's insignia, among other things, but that one seems to stand out most.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/19/09, 5:37 PM   #30
Devloc
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Spinebreaker
Try actually running a sim with one over the other. Even if the DPS estimates are off, especially for things like trinkets and sigils, the simulations tend to be a lot more accurate.

*Edit- seems you're on to something though, Banner is showing a slight advantage over the Insignia on my DK as well, more noticeably with raid buffs (where the estimate shows Banner > Insignia) than in Self buffs (where the difference is far less pronounced, and sometimes sims a loss).

Perhaps there is a fault in the wonderfully fun and mathtastic stat that is ArP? I hear that stat is a delight to model.

Last edited by Devloc : 10/19/09 at 5:44 PM.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/19/09, 5:39 PM   #31
Yellowsix
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by Bensch78 View Post
My sims are now more in line with the results of Kahorie´s simulator. But with my gear Kahorie´s Simulator values 2H > DW. With your simulator DW > 2H.

And i just want to know, how this could be.
I cached a version of your character, and if I get time I'll try to determine where the difference lies. I haven't looked in detail, but I'm sure that there are some minor differences in the rotations being used, which may impact the results. Another area that I have not done an extensive comparison is ghoul damage.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/19/09, 5:45 PM   #32
Yellowsix
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by neomasterc View Post
I dont think the stat weighings are correct.
As an unholy DK, it rates banner of vicotry over bandit's insignia, among other things, but that one seems to stand out most.
Speaking to these 2 trinkets in particular, let me know if you feel that any of this information is incorrect:

Banner of Victory: triggers on any damaging attack, 45s internal CD, 20% proc rate
Bandit's Insignia: triggers on auto-attacks only, 45s internal CD, 15% proc rate

One known issue is that bandit's insignia is not receiving a boost from black ice at the moment.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/19/09, 5:59 PM   #33
Devloc
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Spinebreaker
Originally Posted by Yellowsix View Post
One known issue is that bandit's insignia is not receiving a boost from black ice at the moment.
It's Arcane damage so not an issue.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/20/09, 1:46 PM   #34
NaeblisHyjal
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Hyjal
I had the same problem with earlier versions of Kahorie's DK Sim, but it seems like Mr. Robot isn't calculating DPS Simulations properly when I upgrade my Greatness / Normal Death's Choice trinket combo to a Heroic / Normal Death's Choice trinket combo.

I end up getting a DPS loss instead of a DPS increase.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/20/09, 2:12 PM   #35
revulva
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by NaeblisHyjal View Post
I had the same problem with earlier versions of Kahorie's DK Sim, but it seems like Mr. Robot isn't calculating DPS Simulations properly when I upgrade my Greatness / Normal Death's Choice trinket combo to a Heroic / Normal Death's Choice trinket combo.

I end up getting a DPS loss instead of a DPS increase.
(I'm a co-developer of the website)

The buff from Heroic and Normal Death's Choice has the same name, with a slightly different value. Right now the simulator will not stack the two. That is why you are seeing a DPS loss instead of decrease.

Can anyone confirm if they actually do stack in-game?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/20/09, 4:05 PM   #36
nerdfuel
Von Kaiser
 
nerdfuel's Avatar
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by revulva View Post
Can anyone confirm if they actually do stack in-game?
They do, it has been tested multiple times.

Here are a few in-game screen shots of the proc stacking.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1116/...1609000627.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9683/dualproc.jpg

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/20/09, 5:03 PM   #37
revulva
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Suramar
Cool - thanks for the info. We will incorporate that in to the site in the next couple days.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/21/09, 12:18 AM   #38
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Yellowsix View Post
Banner of Victory: triggers on any damaging attack, 45s internal CD, 20% proc rate
Bandit's Insignia: triggers on auto-attacks only, 45s internal CD, 15% proc rate

One known issue is that bandit's insignia is not receiving a boost from black ice at the moment.
Banner only triggers from Physical hits (so IT, DC, etc. will not proc it).
Bandit's triggers from Physical hits like Banner. The proc is an Arcane spell that is affected by normal spell modifiers and uses your spell hit and crit.

For Unholy and Frost, Bandit's is always better.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/21/09, 5:22 AM   #39
Yellowsix
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Suramar
Thanks for the info, it'll be in the next update. We have an efficient way that we can model just about any trinket without having to write special code for it -- at the moment we have over 100 trinkets modeled in the simulator, and it is trivial to update or add new ones. (I'm working on some larger changes which is why this next update is delayed.)

It was kind of hard to find the right info for all of them though, so we got a few numbers off here and there. I will be adding all of the trinket's special information to the item tooltips in the near future, so that people can see exactly what the simulator is doing with that trinket. That should bring any bugs to the surface much more quickly.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/21/09, 7:07 AM   #40
Hedin
Ask me about my add-on.
 
Hedin's Avatar
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Черный Шрам (EU)
Simulator doesn't work with russian realms...
EU Хедушка Гордунни won't work

Hedd - My maxDPS in one icon addon.

Russia Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/21/09, 2:08 PM   #41
revulva
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by Hedin View Post
Simulator doesn't work with russian realms...
EU Хедушка Гордунни won't work
Is that realm and character name? Or is that just the realm name? Sorry, my russian is rusty...

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/21/09, 3:40 PM   #42
Yellowsix
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by Hedin View Post
Simulator doesn't work with russian realms...
EU Хедушка Гордунни won't work
edit: I had realm and character backwards -- I was able to load your character from the armory. What doesn't work for you? Is it failing when trying to load your character? What error message does it give you?

edit: I posted a small update to the site that should force the silverlight plugin to use english as its language setting, and hopefully avoid issues that may arise due to the settings on a particular user's computer. Please let me know if you are still experiencing problems.

Last edited by Yellowsix : 10/21/09 at 5:28 PM.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/27/09, 1:03 PM   #43
prime311
Von Kaiser
 
lol
Draenei Mage
 
Non-US/EU Server
Originally Posted by Yellowsix View Post
Unfortunately the armory does not provide sufficient data for socket bonuses. I can tell what socket bonuses you have active when you load your particular character, but I cannot determine the socket bonuses for random item XYZ from the armory. It's a strange omission on the armory's part. Thus, I just ignore socket bonuses entirely. It doesn't significantly impact DPS though, so coming up with some way to build up a database of socket bonuses is a pretty low priority.
Not to belabor the point, but it would be really helpful to have this. For example if I have a Yellow socket that offers a +6 Strength socket bonus will I get more DPS from using a 20 Str gem or using a 10 Str/10 Crit gem. Of course I can manually determine this based on generic stat weights for the spec, but if I'm comparing different specs, as I do quite a bit, that ends up being a fair amount of manual effort involved. And since the sim results will vary each time you can't really get a definitive answer that way. Sorry if I sound like I'm being picky, I really love the site, I'm just saying that there is definitely some usefulness here should you get an opportunity to develop this piece. Perhaps it would be enough to adjust the displayed DPS based on the current simulation when you change anything rather then rerunning the sim everytime?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/27/09, 3:29 PM   #44
Yellowsix
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Suramar
I'll give some more thought to the socket bonus issue... the problem is one of maintainability: I want to rely on the armory for item information as much as possible, which should keep the simulator up to date without requiring constant maintenance on my part.

One idea for a quick solution might be to show somewhere on the UI what kind of socket bonus you would need for it to be worthwhile to match it instead of just using +20str gems, or, allow users to manually specify what the socket bonus is.

Once I roll out this next update I'll see what I can do, because yes I agree, it would be nice to somehow factor in socket bonuses.

(In general though, the difference in DPS between matching a bonus and just using a BiS gem is so small, that you don't have to worry about it when gearing your character -- it would just be nice to add that extra level of polish to the UI.)

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/29/09, 9:35 AM   #45
jacaregorgo
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Gorgonnash (EU)
Originally Posted by Yellowsix View Post
I tried out your character, but you were in tank gear, so I was unable to determine why it thought the PvP helmet should be ranked so highly.

Somebody else mentioned these "40k" auto-attacks... I'm pretty sure that it's a display error somehow, because someone else was getting item tooltips with extra zeroes on the end for some stats. What culture settings do you have on your computer? e.g. mine is en-US for english-United States. I'm going to try and test various cultures this weekend.

It is a complex simulator... I'm curious as to what leads you to believe that it is not? It models every DPS-relevant DK ability, talent, trinket proc, etc. with as accurate information as I could locate. The only fundamental difference between ours and others that I have seen, is that it is web-based and has a "point-and-click" user interface on top of it.

By default it runs 100 5-minute fight simulations, which isn't quite enough to get the same result every time (you can see the margin of error next to the DPS result). It seemed like a good trade-off between speed and accuracy. We plan to expose those settings though, so that people can run longer simulations if they desire.
Hi Yellow,

that was me, i mentioned it in your Robot Forum. I use an enGB WoW and culture settings are geman. Maybe it's really a similiar prob to Allcom's since i remember he used to be on my server so he could have similiar settings.

greets

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/30/09, 1:19 PM   #46
prime311
Von Kaiser
 
lol
Draenei Mage
 
Non-US/EU Server
Got another one for you. I noticed Sparkling Onyxia Hide Pendant isn't available in the gear selector. Maybe because its not a Str neck?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/30/09, 2:51 PM   #47
Hugsie
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
Lothar
To deal with the haste issue (and potentially others related to fight length), why not allow users to randomize fight length within a certain range? I think this would create a more realistic model because real fights have reasonable windows of possible length but can never be predicted down to the last second.

This would also produce the novel result of allowing players to get an average of their dps performance across fights of several different lengths, which is arguably more useful than just modeling for a single fight duration.

Really neat app, it's young but already pretty useful in its current state. =)

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/30/09, 5:24 PM   #48
Yellowsix
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Suramar
I'll add that missing item prime311.

I like the idea of randomizing the length of the fight within a specified range. It wouldn't even have to be that large of a range to get rid of most "weird" behavior due to particular values of haste, e.g. 4-6 minute fights ought to do it.

I'll put a UI that exposes these options in the next update. I have made several other updates and bug fixes that I am almost done testing, so I'll try to roll this into it.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10/31/09, 3:15 PM   #49
Deathwarp
Glass Joe
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Drak'thul (EU)
I really like the idea of a web based simulator, mainly because i play on a MAC and using Mr. Robot i don't need to boot up another computer just to run some sims

Good job, keep it up

And a suggestion, i couldn't be ar*ed to read the whole topic, but you could add an option to load the secondary spec/glyphs.. Or am I just blind and the option is there?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/09, 11:34 AM   #50
Dynami
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Lightning's Blade
I ran a sim on Mr. Robot with my gear and quickly realized that my Gargoyle is critting when Gargoyle Strike can't crit.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Death Knights

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Alliance][Thunderhorn] <Robot House> Casual Guild, Pro Results, LF YOU! Gooding /LFGuild 0 03/06/09 2:46 AM
[Mage] Mage gear comparison page on web? candlegarden The Dung Heap 1 12/31/07 7:46 AM
Item Comparison? Handled Class Mechanics 3 07/13/07 5:38 AM
Gear/Stats Comparison: Starting Raids at 60 vs 70 Rule The Dung Heap 5 12/01/06 1:02 AM