Shazear

Hi, I'm the Rawr.TankDK model developer.
As there really should be a separate thread for Tank and DPS DKs, I now created a tank thread.

I do check the Rawr forums very regularly, so if I don't get to you here very quickly, be sure to swing by there, and I'll be able to answer your questions much more rapidly. However, feel free to post your questions and observations, and let's have a lively discussion.

Notes taken from the TankDK Wiki on Rawr's site: Rawr TankDK Wiki

Support

* Currently supporting Wow 3.2.2

Status
Accuracy has been gradually increasing with each new release.

Current TODOs:
(kind of in order)

* Finish Rawr3 Integration
* Fix defects
o Vampiric Blood - completely skews all numbers.
o Mark of Blood - hangs system for long period of time.
* Integrate the BossHandler class.
* Fix shot rotation/threat modeling through re-work of ability usage.
* Fix/finish talent evaluation so that optimizing for talents produces a result that makes sense.

Recent new model features implemented:
2.2.25:

* Graph of stat Values
* Defect 14581: Glyph of UA fix
* Defect 14400: T9 set bonuses
* Defect 13990: Next step of Rawr3 implementation - still not complete.
* Defect 14503: Narrowed discrepancies with Avoidance numbers. Parry is now within ~0.01% and Dodge is within ~0.04%

2.2.24

* Large refactoring effort to improve accuracy and additional performance optimizations
* Fixed Glyph of Runestrike
* Fixed Expertise based Optimizer options
* Work around for Vampiric Blood horking all calc values.


2.2.23
2.2.22

* Implemented parsing for Sigil of Insolence.
* Implemented some performance optimization in preparation for refactoring required to improve the SpecialEffects handling within the module.

2.2.21
2.2.20

* Fix for a Mitigation bug that wasn't properly handling blanket damage reduction effects (talents)
* Final integration of 3.2.2 changes.
* Initial Implementation of Burst/Reaction Time graphs.


Known Issues
If you find any problems w/ the model, please be sure to use the Issue Tracker. It is checked regularly, and so if the defect is not found there, please write it up and I'll get to working on it.
Currently targeting Shot rotation work. There are quite a few tweaks and a bit of refactoring that needs to go in to make it work properly.

 

• frmorrison

One issue I have is with regard for the Uncrittable mark. For example, my DK has 15 defense rating "extra" defense while using a 56 defense rating ring. Rawr says using a 0 defense ring in that slot would be a better option, putting my 40 defense rating until the mark.

I think the default boss behavior isn't correct under options (10K Hits is too small), however I don't know what they should be. I just messed with them until it rating the Stamina trinkets over the dodge ones.
The ratings I have are: Survival 2.05, Incoming damage 40,000, and 0.05 magic damage.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Shazear

Is this based on the Ring1 or Ring2 graphs or actually while using the optimizer with adding the option of "Chance to be Crit" <= 0 ?

If you're just looking at the item graphs, then it's possible that a given item may be better in broad terms, but may not actually fulfill some key points that we consider vital for a tank, e.g. hitting uncritable/Def softcap. The item comparison graphs don't know that's a requirement so that's expected. It believes that all things being equal Ring A w/o def may be better than Ring B that has def necessary to put you over that key mark. For the purposes of individual item comparison, the item graphs are just that: Compare item A to item B, sorted by raw values (Survival, Mitigation, & Threat or Burst/Reaction time). Raw values are generated by comparing the character's total value with the item on vs. with that slot empty.

Agreed. There is a BossHandler class that's being generated to be useful for all modules that will better describe bosses, both in specific and in general. Once that class becomes more stable, I'll be working to use those options rather than just some magic options that can be tweaked by the user. This way you could gear for specific fights, and compare different sets across different fights.

 

• frotes

The health values from rawr have not be accurate for awhile.

Like my current setup I have logged out on armory puts me at just above 43586k hp. When loaded into rawr without any buffs, it says I have 45292.

Also the avoid % are slightly off as well.

Druid - Frotes

Hunter - Washte

 

Shazear

One part of the health value reported in your particular case is due to Vampiric blood. With the last couple releases, I had code that gave an effective health value of procs averaged out by uptime. So that would give you a buff to health that wouldn't show up on your in-game paper-doll.

However, there is a bug in that particular proc that I'm still trying to figure out that's blowing all the other values out of whack. I'm looking into it, but don't yet have a solution, so for the next release, it may be pulled for that particular talent. Not sure, as it's in-research.

 

TehFoo

im very interested in seeing a the sigil comparison fleshed out with the 245 dodge sigil

 

Evilbunny

Is there any way to incorporate the threat gains of dodge and parry via rune strike into their values?

 

masterkiller

The discrepancy in health has been my #1 issue and I searched around the Rawr forums for quite awhile trying to figure out why. Thanks for the explanation. Is there a way to disable VB calculations aside from removing the talent? At least now that I know what causes it I can manually remove the talent and compare gear choices with accurate health so that is exciting.

I'm assuming removing the VB talent would slightly affect gear scores since VB favors stacking more health?

Thanks for your work on TankDK, I use it all the time.

 

Evilbunny

If it wouldn't be too terribly much of a problem, would it be possible to put a scroll bar on the 'Character Pane'? It is quite hard to procrastinate at work on my netbook when I can't fiddle with my weapons, sigil, trinkets, and wrists.

 

Shazear

Good question. I know that the runestrike procs are dependant upon the Avoidance % and I have some of those numbers involved in the rotation. However, at this point, I believe I need to finish the re-write of the combat rotation functionality. With the Blood TPS being completely borked, and things like RS not always having the right amount of applications and such, it's high time I focus on getting that worked out.

Right now, it's not feasible, because of the implementation limitation. But it will be once I finish re-working the rotations.

 

Shazear

I'm not sure. I've seen requests for that come across the issue tracker every so often. I believe it's not planned for the normal version, but Rawr3 does have better handling of that, so you will probably have to wait for that.

Sorry.

 

Shazear

Wait for 2.2.24 - I just (in the last hour) checked in a change that pulled out the +health aspect that was breaking that talent. So while now the talent is valued much less, it is not breaking everything else. Depending on the time-frame for 24, will determine when I can get it fixed properly.

Also, I now have the Basic Stats just reporting what should be real in-game paper doll values. Things like Dodge/Parry will still have procs factored in, but things like Sta, Health, Str, etc. should be no-proc related.

You're very welcome. I started on it for selfish reasons since it wasn't being maintained, and I'm glad I can help myself and help the community.

 

Shazear

This is definitely working for the upcoming 2.2.24.

 

Evilbunny

Why not have something in the options that can let you choose how you want procs handled? Maybe have like "Don't Model Procs" for purely paper doll stats, "Average Value" for how I assume it is being modeled now (if it adds 300str for 15 seconds and procs every 45 seconds, it would add 100str to your paper doll stats), and "Always Procced" for showing 'best-case scenario' or quickly verifying that you won't exceed some cap and lose value from the proc.

 

• frotes

Good stuff. I also noticed that my avoidance on rawr is sightly off from in game. Mainly the miss from defense, altho the dodge/parry is off little too. (I don't run any avoidance trinkets and removed sigil so it isn't because of the averaging on that)

Druid - Frotes

Hunter - Washte

 

testor

Glyph of Rune Strike broken?

When I check it on, I lose 1 point of aggro. I'm not sure how that happens but it doesn't seem correct.

I'm not dropping another glyph, just toggling it on and off.

 

Shazear

Yes. You're right. It had a value, but the value was under represented. 1% rather than 10%. I'll fix that.
Good catch.

 

Luckton

How can I make the optimizer enforce a 8% or 9% chance to hit? The +Hit option in the optimizer doesn't really give me a lot of detail...

 

• frmorrison

Give a higher value to threat? Anyway, you don't want more than 8% hit. Use the taunt glyph if you want Taunt to not miss.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

azcon

I noticed that the DK glyph Vamperic Blood is wrong. It should be a boost of 5sec instead of 10 mentioned on the program.

Anyway, this program seems really well done.

 

Luckton

I'll give that a shot, and I understand not needing more than 8%. I just was wondering how I could set the Opt. to treat Hit rating like I can with ensuring I remain Defense and Expertise capped at 540 and 26 respectively. I can set Chance to be Crit to be <= 0 and Chance for target to Dodge to be <=0. I guess I'm just looking for a way to set Hit rating to >=264

 

• frotes

Pretty sure when you run the optimize, there is an add requirement button. You can set certain restrictions such as making sure you always have > X hit there.

Druid - Frotes

Hunter - Washte

 

Shazear

Ahh... This looks like something that I was working on refactoring and then didn't finish it. I'll get some fixes in on that. Thank you.

 

Shazear

Thank you.
Also my implmentation of Vampirirc Blood is really messing things up. Looks like I need to take a look at everything around this talent, maybe just start from scratch on how I'm dealing with it.

Also the UI tooltips are separate from implementation, so I need to check up on that as well.

 

puupi

My guildie just got his account keylogged, the keylogger was from the newest version of Rawr. Just warning you guys, be careful with Rawr for the moment!