DK Mechanics Discussion - Page 2

Kaejin · 03/09/10, 7:32 PM

6 & 7) From all of my experience it works exactly as stated in the think tank. Runes are always consumed from left to right as displayed on the default UI.

8) When you use BT, it refreshes one blood rune (provided one is on CD), and also changes one into a death rune for the buff's duration. Both actions seem to be separate, which is what allows you to use one blood rune, use blood tap, and end up with two death runes in place of blood runes. The first blood rune you used as a BS is already a death rune, so BT refreshes the one blood rune on CD (which is already a death rune), and then turns the remaining blood rune into a death rune.

If the Blood Tap buff fades or is canceled, then the blood rune it converted will change back from a death rune into a blood rune, regardless of the last thing you did with it.

For example, if you used the BT'd death rune to Blood Strike or Pest, and it goes on CD as a death rune, but then BT is removed, the rune will change back into a blood rune. Given BT's 20 second duration, this is likely the reason it screws with rotations and you end up with mismatched blood/death runes unless you /cancelaura.

edit: Beaten to the punch.

Larisroth · 03/09/10, 8:06 PM

Thanks guys. I've observed a different use ordering, but I use Magic Runes and a custom rune order. I'll update it later. AFAIK Blood tap also generates 10 RP, doesn't consume a GCD, but can't be used in macros before an ability that will use the reactivated rune (Due to client having to receive information that the rune is refreshed). The grace period will apply from the time of reactivation.

I'm also still curious about DRM and FU strikes. I suspect that the create death rune code is called after the runes are put on cooldown and basically makes the most recently used rune of that base type a death rune. This would explain the behaviour listed in the TTT, but I haven't really played with blood so can't easily test.

Finally, how does ERW interact with already active runes? Will it change the grace period? ERW isn't on the GCD so it should be macroable and you can then hit ERW and an ability just after the rune reactivates.

Larisroth · 03/25/10, 6:30 PM

I switched my unholy build to a non-reaping build, and I noticed that if you have two blood runes, on on cooldown and the other not and you blood tap, then it just switches the active rune to being a death rune and doesn't reactivate the one on cooldown. Is this new behaviour? On the other hand if you have a death rune on cooldown then it will will switch the active blood rune to being a death rune and reactive the death rune. Can someone else check this, as it seems rather confusing.

The next thing I want to look at is pet behaviour.

Last night I confirmed that the unholy permaghoul double dips on raid haste buffs. However, I would guess that all other pets don't, as they make a "snapshot" of (some of your stats). (Does anyone have a way to test this? With respect to hit rating and expertise for the pets, AFAIK if you're melee special hit capped then your pets won't miss (even with spells), but I'm not sure about lower values of hit.

dr_AllCOM3 · 03/25/10, 8:45 PM

Originally Posted by Larisroth

5) How does the Rune grace period work? Current working theory is if you use a rune within a short period of it coming available (after the "10" second refresh time) then it will consider that the next refresh time starts from when the rune was first available rather than when it was used. This grace period you have to use the rune is usually considered to be 2 seconds. Is that the correct duration? Does it change in unholy presence or with the imp unholy presence talent?

If you use a fresh rune, you get up to two seconds subtracted from the new rune cooldown.

Melchior · 03/26/10, 1:53 AM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

If you use a fresh rune within two seconds, you get that amount subtracted from the new rune cooldown.

To clarify that slightly before anyone asks, you can wait longer than two seconds (for however long you please while in combat status), but that is the maximum that will be subtracted from the new rune cooldown.

dr_AllCOM3 · 03/27/10, 12:40 AM

The rune grace period is 2,5s if we're precise. I just measured it ingame.

Larisroth · 03/27/10, 4:29 AM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

The rune grace period is 2,5s if we're precise. I just measured it ingame.

Yeah I think that's what snowfall runes used.

I confirmed what melchior said above as well.

It seems that every time after the first time you use a rune (at least normally) didn't really test ERW or Bloodtap that you do get some time off the cooldown, even if it's outside the grace period.

Larisroth · 03/29/10, 12:57 AM

Okay. In terms of the pets, i'll start with the ghoul.

The following facts are culled from the old pet discussion.

* PermaGhouls work like most permanent pets, receiving a portion of your stats and can be buffed
* Ghouls receive strength from their masters: Str = (DKStr * (.7 * RavDead)). If you have the [Glyph of the Ghoul] then add + (DKStr * .4) to the formula.
* Ghouls receive 100% of your haste; this is recent data from live.
* Ghouls appear to have AoE mitigation as of patch 3.0.8, 35% for each point in NotD. This is both physical (effects like cleave and whirlwind) and magical (dragon breath attacks)
* Ghouls benefit from pet snacks (such as kibblers bits)
* Ghoul hit rating rounds down, always. So if you have 7.99% hit rating, the ghoul will have 7% hit rating
* Ghoul Frenzy – This talent should only be taken if you have trouble keeping your Ghoul alive. If you do, it becomes invaluable, as a dead Ghoul is a large portion of your dps down the drain (due to 30 seconds of absolutely zero Ghoul damage, followed by your Ghoul doing reduced damage for the remainder of the fight from missing buffs). If you don’t have issues with your Ghoul going down, then skip this talent. In nearly every case it will be a dps loss. (Credit to Consider from the Unholy dps thread)
* Ghouls gain expertise based on your hit rating. So if you had 131 hit (4%), the pet gains 13 expertise. 263 hit (8%), the pet gains 26 expertise. The Draenei hit aura does not give expertise to the pet. (Credit to Consider from the Unholy dps thread)

After looking at some logs the source-code of a few of the simulators, I've come up with the following model for the perma ghoul.
A Ghoul can basically autoclaw every 4 seconds (due to it requiring 40 energy).
ghoul gets buffs and so double dips on haste and strength buffs.

From the pet sheet and testing at a few values I get:
Ghoul DPS = 50 + 0.89/14 (GhoulAP)
I'd like confimation on this

Spuddelkopf · 03/29/10, 7:35 AM

This is probably not relevant to the Ghoul's dps but the AoE mitigation is 45% per point since 3.3.0 (but only for aoe damage not caused by players).

Quintuple · 03/29/10, 12:53 PM

Regarding the grace period, it works as follows:

If a rune comes off cooldown there are two cases:

A) You use that same rune again in x seconds, where x < 2.5. The cooldown on that rune then is 10-x seconds.
B) You use that same rune again at least 2.5 seconds after it comes off cooldown. The cooldown on that rune will then be 7.5 seconds.

The grace period resets when you exit combat. This means that if you leave a rune for several minutes after using it while staying in combat, its cooldown is still 7.5 seconds. So if you use, say BS and exit combat immediately afterwards, and then use BS again immediately when it's up, that rune will get a 10 second cooldown.

Note that the following situation can occur: suppose you have both runes in the grace period, ie you have used both runes and you haven't left combat for 10 seconds. You use one of the runes. You use it immediately when it comes back, giving it a 10 second cooldown. A GDC later you use the other rune. That rune gets a 7.5 second cooldown, while the first one has a 8.5 second cooldown, so the rune you used after the first rune will come back before the first one. This also answers one of the questions in the OP: the runes chosen for your attacks are the same regardless of the grace period.

Quintuple · 03/29/10, 1:49 PM

Regarding the interaction between misses and the grace period, it works as follows:

If you try to use a rune for the first time in combat and it misses, the grace period is not started. If you miss after using a rune at least once in the same combat, it does not affect the grace period: you still count 2 seconds from the moment the rune cooldown ended, as if you never did the attack that missed.

There is no difference between missing, dodging and parrying as far as I observed. I explicitly tested this on the 'missing on the first rune usage of the combat', but not explicitly on the grace period test.

Zxian · 03/29/10, 5:08 PM

Originally Posted by Larisroth

Ability misses
If a frost strike fails to hit, then you get back 90% of the runic power cost. If a death coil misses you do not.
If a rune using ability fails to hit you get the rune back. (Still need to check whether the grace period changes)

Just a quick note about this, but the above mentioned refund for runes should be applied to MH attacks. In the case of DW, I'm fairly sure I've seen one of my two Obliterate strikes be parried while tanking (the other hit the target for it's usual damage), and then getting the FU runes back.

I'll find some time tonight to see if I can combat log on a target dummy to confirm this.

Quintuple · 03/31/10, 7:52 AM

Regarding Pestillence and +%/+str modifiers:

First some terminology: I call your current target the primary target and all the targets that get hit by Pestillence that are not your primary target secondary targets.

Every time you cast Pest the +%/+str modifiers are recalculated for all secondary targets. It uses the modifiers present on yourself and on the secondary target. In other words, if you have RoR on your primary target but not on your secondary targets, you do not get the +10% benefit on your secondary targets.

I haven't tested anything other than +% and +str modifiers, but I assume they work the same. I haven't done testing on GoD yet.

Etio · 03/31/10, 3:13 PM

On the topic of parried/dodged/missed strikes, I've noticed that Dirge will still supply its 5 extra runic power even on a parried/dodged/missed plague strike or scourge strike, whereas the normal amount of runic power generated just through performing the strike talentless will not. I do not have any spec with Chill of the Grave, can anyone confirm this behavior with that talent?

• Aldriana · 03/31/10, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Zxian

Just a quick note about this, but the above mentioned refund for runes should be applied to MH attacks. In the case of DW, I'm fairly sure I've seen one of my two Obliterate strikes be parried while tanking (the other hit the target for it's usual damage), and then getting the FU runes back.

I'll find some time tonight to see if I can combat log on a target dummy to confirm this.

Based on my testing (which was a few months ago, but I can't imagine they've changed it): The MH attack obeys regular dodge/parry/miss rates; if it misses, runes are refunded. Regardless of what happens with the MH attack, the OH attack *always* hits.

The fundamental effect - that the OH attack always hits and the MH attack obeys the usual hit table and determines whether you get a refund or not - applies to all DW attacks I tested (Blood Strike, Plague Strike, Frost Strike, etc.) The only thing I can't confirm is the size of the RP refund, but I would assume it's the same as in the single-weapon case.

I also never really studied Rune Strike in detail - I'm pretty sure it obeys the same rule wherein the OH attack always hits, but getting sufficient sample size to confirm that proves somewhat tricky so I haven't actually done it.