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Old 07/06/10, 8:31 PM   #181
Qaenyin
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Kul Tiras
Originally Posted by Lanlaorn View Post
Has the Glyph of Disease survived the beta so far? I know they said to treat glyphs like set bonuses in that what's here today may be gone tomorrow but operating under the assumption that it is still in the game it appears like it will be quite powerful, especially for tanking.

A tanking steady state rotation for maximum Death Strikes would be:

Pest, DS // BB, DS // HS, DS, Repeat.

For the 17.5% healing + bubble every 10 seconds. Obviously with DRM you could use Heart Strikes or Blood Boils every other rotation as needed.
My projected rotation atm is IT PS BB HS DS, DS HS HS DS, DS HS HS DS, repeat. Dumps where the commas are.

AFAIK Glyph of Disease is still in, to answer your question, although with the dramatically increased disease durations I'm not sure it's worth it anymore.

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Old 07/06/10, 11:08 PM   #182
Lanlaorn
Piston Honda
 
Human Death Knight
 
Khadgar
Well in an environment where Death Strike is our main passive survival tool aimed to be on par with 46% mitigation blocks (Prot Pally at 51 prot mastery) I was looking to maximize death strike use.

Also you seem to be using far too many runes in your rotation. Only 3 runes come off cooldown in Cataclysm, not all six. Your rotation would be IT PS BB, DS HS, DS HS. My idea is just to replace that IT/PS with a Pestilence and get another DS in there.

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Old 07/07/10, 8:03 AM   #183
Nyth_
Piston Honda
 
Troll Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Lanlaorn View Post
Well in an environment where Death Strike is our main passive survival tool aimed to be on par with 46% mitigation blocks (Prot Pally at 51 prot mastery) I was looking to maximize death strike use.

Also you seem to be using far too many runes in your rotation. Only 3 runes come off cooldown in Cataclysm, not all six. Your rotation would be IT PS BB, DS HS, DS HS. My idea is just to replace that IT/PS with a Pestilence and get another DS in there.
The question is whether that is worth it.

First of all you only apply diseases once per minute (or once per 1m 30s if we decide to take epidemic), because of the new outbreak.

Second of all the question is whether we can spent the glyph slot for diseases. The talent tree is probably unfinished, and I personally kind of doubt we get so many cooldowns. But Glyph of Bone Shield; Glyph of Vampiric Blood and maybe even Glyph of DRW seem really attractive.

So it might depend on the strength of the new mastery how good it's turning out to be. Glyph of diseases would give you 20% extra DS's without epidemic (5/min to 6/min) and 12.5% extra DS's with epidemic (16/3min to 18/3min).

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Old 07/07/10, 1:09 PM   #184
zebrahed
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Frostwolf
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Systems-Update

So, ignore whatever our talent trees look like currently from the Beta, cause it's not gonna matter anymore.

Supposedly rotations won't be changed when they prone talents, but it's almost impossible to see nothing get changed when they cut things down to 31 talents.

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Old 07/07/10, 6:19 PM   #185
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Here is a hint at the future of Unholy from GC:

Looking at Unholy, talents like Impurity, Desolation, Wandering Plague, Crypt Fever (but not Ebon Plaguebringer) and Rage of Rivendare (sad about the lore hit there) are gone.

They are mostly +damage talents, so favor talents (like the mount speed one) are likely staying in.

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Old 07/07/10, 7:28 PM   #186
Kaejin
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Crypt Fever is gone? Hurray!

At least, as long as the disease damage boost is gone from EP as well.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

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Old 07/08/10, 3:18 PM   #187
LigerZeroX
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Silver Hand
Why would you also want the disease damage increase from EP gone too?

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Old 07/08/10, 3:36 PM   #188
Kaejin
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Because it's an annoying requirement to have at least one Unholy DK in the raid in order for the other DKs and Shadow Priests to do max damage. It's a buff that only benefits a few specs rather than most other raid buffs that benefit a much larger array of specs and classes. If you're the only DK in a raid you're essentially required to be Unholy because of it.

If Crypt Fever is gone we'll be balanced around the fact that it no longer exists anyway.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

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Old 07/08/10, 6:16 PM   #189
Raxxamillion
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Vek'nilash (EU)
It makes a lot of sense that our damage is balanced around spell damage as Kaejin says, rather than Just DK's and SP's Devouring plague requiring an Unholy DK to max out.

If we are all balanced around it all being plain spelldamage, then the playing field will be leveled somewhat and all DK DPS will be more consistent.

Still, any encounter that involves mutiple mobs, maybe AoE will still benefit on the Unholy DK's ability to pestilence ebon plague onto multiple mobs in one GCD.

Going to be interesting to see how many of the existing talents are merged into one talent and how many are completely ditched.

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Old 07/09/10, 1:36 PM   #190
Qaenyin
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Kul Tiras
Originally Posted by Lanlaorn View Post
Well in an environment where Death Strike is our main passive survival tool aimed to be on par with 46% mitigation blocks (Prot Pally at 51 prot mastery) I was looking to maximize death strike use.

Also you seem to be using far too many runes in your rotation. Only 3 runes come off cooldown in Cataclysm, not all six. Your rotation would be IT PS BB, DS HS, DS HS. My idea is just to replace that IT/PS with a Pestilence and get another DS in there.
Ah, I feel stupid. I have spent this whole time operating under the assumption that while only 3 runes come off cooldown at a time, net rune generation speed is the same(IE rather than gaining each rune 10 seconds after usage, you gain a rune's worth of "Rune bar" every 5 seconds for the same amount of 2 runes/10 secs).

I take it it's 1 rune/10 rather than 1 rune/5?

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Old 07/09/10, 9:55 PM   #191
SageoftheTimes
Von Kaiser
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Mug'thol
Originally Posted by Qaenyin View Post
Ah, I feel stupid. I have spent this whole time operating under the assumption that while only 3 runes come off cooldown at a time, net rune generation speed is the same(IE rather than gaining each rune 10 seconds after usage, you gain a rune's worth of "Rune bar" every 5 seconds for the same amount of 2 runes/10 secs).

I take it it's 1 rune/10 rather than 1 rune/5?
Yeah, it's one of each every 10 seconds. They might buff how much our self-heals heal, though. It'd be nice for Toughness & Veteran of the Third War to go to passives, as well.

Finally, they really do have a lot of work to do on Blood. It, as a tree, is probably getting the most of an overhaul of any other tree, due to the tanking conversion. And while I hope Blood will be ready for Cata, it'll probably need retuning after release.

There's also considering what the new trees will look like with talents being 1-3 points max, instead of 1-5 (based on this post from GC on the WoW forums).

Last edited by SageoftheTimes : 07/09/10 at 10:26 PM.

Clams. Now. Stack. 9.11.2008 m/d/y

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Old 07/10/10, 10:35 AM   #192
 frmorrison
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Our intent is that DKs take more damage to compensate for all of the self-healing. As Regill points out, Blood Craze is accessible now and we want Enraged Regen to be more attractive.

This is part of the design idea for DKs in Cata.

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Old 07/10/10, 11:23 AM   #193
Qaenyin
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Kul Tiras
Originally Posted by SageoftheTimes View Post
Yeah, it's one of each every 10 seconds. They might buff how much our self-heals heal, though. It'd be nice for Toughness & Veteran of the Third War to go to passives, as well.
Well it depends. When you look at it Death Strike is going to effectively heal for, what, 2.5x the amount it did in WotLK comparative to health pools(half of which is absorbtion and half of which is actual healing)? That's a pretty significant increase, probably enough to offset the slower rune generation rate. This is, of course, assuming the talent Improved Death Strike is baked into the spell like Improved Mortal Strike will be rather than being simply removed.

Something that does jump out at me is if they're making 31 point trees and getting rid of large amounts of passive talents, are Death Rune talents going away and/or being changed and implemented differently?

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Old 07/10/10, 1:26 PM   #194
Lanlaorn
Piston Honda
 
Human Death Knight
 
Khadgar
I'm sure the numbers will work out so that our half as many hits all do twice as much. My biggest concern for DK tanking remains that I'll just be sitting there with 3-4 empty GCDs due to the new rune mechanic and all my runic power going into Rune Strike. Early beta reports that this is indeed the case, but with a complete talent overhaul I'm going to keep hoping for some new mechanic that corrects this.

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Old 07/11/10, 12:01 PM   #195
Missgunst
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Taerar (EU)
I'm really hoping that the talent tree changes will also change some things for DK tanking. At the moment it's really awful to tank 5 mans. 30 second DnD (if you don't skill that deep in uh, which in my eyes makes no sence), your runes seem on CD for an eternity and you need all your runic power for Runestrikes. The random rune which comes of CD by the talent Runic Empowerement doesn't really help that much.
I have to say without the "home" of my default UI with all addons, it was really hard to tank blackrock caverns.

Icy Touch says in the description that it does a very hight amount of threat in Frost Presence, dunno if that is only a typo, but it didn't feel like the aggro machine like it is on the live servers.

I definetily will need some time to get to used to the rune system, especially if you want to keep up bone shield as much as you can.

- the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed -

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