Balance Raiding in Cataclysm - Page 14

aceofsween · 07/23/10, 1:00 AM

I'm not saying they won't be reworked, but I doubt they'll be gone completely. Moonglow especially. Also without knowing what the contribution to our damage is going to be for our DoTs we have no way of knowing how good Genesis is or isn't.

• Hamlet · 07/23/10, 2:56 AM

Originally Posted by Starfox

Starsurge: It always pushes towards solar unless you are under solar, then it pushes towards lunar
Eclipse: Tested with lunar, seems to have a base bonus of 8% (5516/5107 = 1.080086)

--I'm still seeing a 0% gain from Eclipse (also checking Lunar since it's easy). Sure you don't have any procs and things going on?
--Try proccing Solar, then immediately casting Wrath until you pass the center and it fades, then casting Starsurge. It will give Lunar energy. I think it works by some hidden cooldown after each Eclipse. Will check more.

Other things
--Still some bug where the meter jumps to -100 when you drop combat. But I think it's just a display bug.
--Best I can tell, Solar Beam silence really does have a 16yd radius (talented).
--Best I can tell, it simply will not let you proc the same Eclipse twice in a row without leaving combat.
--You can cast the other spell inside Eclipse to make it last longer. Starsurge moves the bar the wrong way though.
--Checking Starsurge again, it seems like it always gives Lunar energy if your last Eclipse was Solar.
--Basically, at any point, there's only one Eclipse you're allowed to proc next, and Starsurge will always move you towards it.

Starfox · 07/23/10, 3:43 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

--I'm still seeing a 0% gain from Eclipse (also checking Lunar since it's easy). Sure you don't have any procs and things going on?
--Try proccing Solar, then immediately casting Wrath until you pass the center and it fades, then casting Starsurge. It will give Lunar energy. I think it works by some hidden cooldown after each Eclipse. Will check more.

Other things
--Still some bug where the meter jumps to -100 when you drop combat. But I think it's just a display bug.
--Best I can tell, Solar Beam silence really does have a 16yd radius (talented).
--Best I can tell, it simply will not let you proc the same Eclipse twice in a row without leaving combat.
--You can cast the other spell inside Eclipse to make it last longer. Starsurge moves the bar the wrong way though.
--Checking Starsurge again, it seems like it always gives Lunar energy if your last Eclipse was Solar.
--Basically, at any point, there's only one Eclipse you're allowed to proc next, and Starsurge will always move you towards it.

Can't reproduce it now, no clue what made the 8%
If you are in negative eclipse, and do ANYTHING, shapeshift, change gear etc. you will proc solar eclipse, wonder why they don't fix that. It has been like that for quite a while now :|

Ereshmilor · 07/23/10, 5:32 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

--I'm still seeing a 0% gain from Eclipse (also checking Lunar since it's easy). Sure you don't have any procs and things going on?
--Try proccing Solar, then immediately casting Wrath until you pass the center and it fades, then casting Starsurge. It will give Lunar energy. I think it works by some hidden cooldown after each Eclipse. Will check more.

Other things
--Still some bug where the meter jumps to -100 when you drop combat. But I think it's just a display bug.
--Best I can tell, Solar Beam silence really does have a 16yd radius (talented).
--Best I can tell, it simply will not let you proc the same Eclipse twice in a row without leaving combat.
--You can cast the other spell inside Eclipse to make it last longer. Starsurge moves the bar the wrong way though.
--Checking Starsurge again, it seems like it always gives Lunar energy if your last Eclipse was Solar.
--Basically, at any point, there's only one Eclipse you're allowed to proc next, and Starsurge will always move you towards it.

wasn't there something that SS deals nature or arcane dmg based on what does more dmg?
so while under solar, it should deal nature dmg an pushes the bar to lunar.

Berengar · 07/23/10, 5:57 AM

Originally Posted by Ereshmilor

wasn't there something that SS deals nature or arcane dmg based on what does more dmg?
so while under solar, it should deal nature dmg an pushes the bar to lunar.

No, I think you mixed that up with the Lunar Guidance Talent, which states, that you gain either Lunar or Solar Energy, depending on which is greater. There's nothing about it doing damage appropriate to which Eclipse you are in. Also I assume, you're still thinking of the former renewed eclipse, where the damage of arcane/nature spells changed with the energy bar, which they do not.

Ereshmilor · 07/23/10, 6:54 AM

Originally Posted by Berengar

No, I think you mixed that up with the Lunar Guidance Talent, which states, that you gain either Lunar or Solar Energy, depending on which is greater. There's nothing about it doing damage appropriate to which Eclipse you are in. Also I assume, you're still thinking of the former renewed eclipse, where the damage of arcane/nature spells changed with the energy bar, which they do not.

No.

Balance druids will have a new talent ability called Nature’s Torrent, which strikes for either Nature or Arcane damage depending on which will do the most damage (or possibly both), and moves the Eclipse meter more (details below). The improved version of Nature’s Torrent also reduces the target's movement speed. 10-second cooldown.

from the class preview World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Cataclysm Class Preview: Druid

Nature's Torrent was then renamed to Starsurge.

And i don't know how Eclipse buffs at the moment, wowhead tells me it buffs nature or arcane dmg.

Lucrece · 07/23/10, 7:36 AM

What he meant was the mechanic that SS DOES have, which is the double resistance check. That is, it will deal the larges damage by checking whether nature or arcane damage would deal more damage, ala Frostfire Bolt.

You are correct in saying that SShas no meaningful interacton with eclipse procs though.

• Hamlet · 07/23/10, 10:50 AM

Confirmed 6 mana cost for Moonfire with WoC stacked by the way. WoC should be neat as long as they Moonfire DD strong enough for it to matter. It should be noted that WoC only begins stacking on an MF cast. It stacks up very quickly (2 seconds), but won't affect the first MF. If falls off if you stop moving for 3s.

On Starsurge: right now you just cast it once at the end of each Eclipse.

Ereshmilor · 07/23/10, 1:18 PM

Confirmed 6 mana cost for Moonfire with WoC stacked by the way. WoC should be neat as long as they Moonfire DD strong enough for it to matter. It should be noted that WoC only begins stacking on an MF cast. It stacks up very quickly (2 seconds), but won't affect the first MF. If falls off if you stop moving for 3s.

I dont know if the numbers for level 85 are correct, but wowhead says
359 dps for wrath, 31 MF dot, 136 IS and 218 dmg MF DD means 18 dps MF DD
lets say eclipse is 20%
that is about 580 dps standing

24% bonus on MF while moving, 145 dps MF spamming, thats
354 dps running

Thats about 60% of the dps. I like that

On Starsurge: right now you just cast it once at the end of each Eclipse.

Doesn't it deal _much more_ dmg than W/SF with Eclipse? Wouldn't it be better to cast on CD?

Whitefyst · 07/23/10, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Fearie Fire stacks up to 3 times.

Catching up on the Moonkin talk since secondary character after my hunter.

It appears that Fearie Fire will be mostly analagous with at least the hunter Scorpid Venom. It also reduces the target armor by 4% and stacks up to 3 times.

Considering that the druid version lasts 5 mins and does not have any alternate abilities, I believe that the preference will be for a druid (usually feral if present) to apply the effect, which is not really anything new. The hunter version lasts only 30s and requires two cast time shots of either Steady or Cobra Shot to get it fully stacked. In addition, using Scorpid Venom prevents the hunter from using either of the other venoms - Viper (for target cast time reduction) and Widow (mortal strike effect).

Note though for some bosses that it may be desired for a MM hunter to keep up the effect since their Chimera Shot in conjunction with the Scorpid Venom can cause disarms on susceptible bosses.

• Hamlet · 07/23/10, 1:33 PM

Er, it's kind of hard to say since the Eclipse buff isn't active and we have no idea how big it will be. I was assuming you won't want to shorten Eclipse uptime, but you're right, it's possible that you will. That would be pretty silly gameplay though and hopefully will get changed.

gnoop · 07/23/10, 1:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ahshift

Well now there is heart of the wild, which both resto and balance will pick up. That is if im reading it correctly.

That's two talents boosting Int (hence damage/healing). I suspect this is testing on the part of Blizzard to see how the numbers come out. One of these is likely to be reworked and if the extra Int is needed for damage and healing, it will get worked in elsewhere. Blizzard's intent has been to remove a lot of the "boring yet mandatory" talents to allow for "fun" talents. Having both these talents seems to go against that idea.

Whitefyst · 07/23/10, 3:21 PM

Concerning Heart of the Wild and Furor, I do find it interesting that with the latest build with making Master Shapeshifter 1 point and only requiring 1 point in Natural Shapshifter to get that, with only 31 points in Balance you can still get both HotW and Furor and still get MS and BotG.

At first glance, I had thought we would have to chose between BotG and MS, and that with Moonkins still not yet needing to change forms a lot that 4 talent points to basically get only 2% spell damage increase was a waste.

aceofsween · 07/23/10, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by gnoop

That's two talents boosting Int (hence damage/healing). I suspect this is testing on the part of Blizzard to see how the numbers come out. One of these is likely to be reworked and if the extra Int is needed for damage and healing, it will get worked in elsewhere. Blizzard's intent has been to remove a lot of the "boring yet mandatory" talents to allow for "fun" talents. Having both these talents seems to go against that idea.

My line of thinking with regard to Blizzard's talent changes really seems to boil down to one question: "How does this talent change the way my character works?" Most of these talent redesigns seem to go along with that question. Conviction increases your damage and healing after a crit. Communion gives your Judgements the Replinishment effect. Art of War gives you a proc to instant cast an ability you might otherwise not use. Divine Purpose gives you more Holy Power generation.

These sort of effects make a big difference in how Ret Paladins function by enhancing the tools the Ret Paladin has. Some of them are in a less inspired way (like the +dmg to Judgements and Seals type talents), but that still has an effect on how the Ret Paladin function by making certain abilities more powerful than others that are available to Holy/Prot paladins (particularly Seal of Truth).

I'm using Ret as an example because Paladins are the furthest along in terms of development now (and because I have a Ret paladin), but those are the sort of things that I ask myself when I'm going over our talent tree. When I get to a situation where the answer is "Well, it doesn't change anything because I'd still never use that" (for example, Gale Winds), then to me that's a pretty good indication that the talent will be disappearing. But it's not just that, I also think our trees are going to be fleshed out. There's only 5 talent points in tiers 5 and 6 meaning you'd have to take every talent in that tier to move up or you have to backtrack, which really means there isn't much choice there.

It's definitely going to be interesting to see what happens next.

Krag · 07/23/10, 7:09 PM

Originally Posted by Whitefyst

It appears that Fearie Fire will be mostly analagous with at least the hunter Scorpid Venom. It also reduces the target armor by 4% and stacks up to 3 times.

Considering that the druid version lasts 5 mins and does not have any alternate abilities, I believe that the preference will be for a druid (usually feral if present) to apply the effect, which is not really anything new. The hunter version lasts only 30s and requires two cast time shots of either Steady or Cobra Shot to get it fully stacked.

The feral version of Faerie Fire only lasts 30 seconds too now I believe. So the caster version will probably have the duration lowered too which would make it a last resort for armor debuffs.