Elitist Jerks Balance Raiding in Cataclysm

 09/05/10, 11:03 PM #301 lissanna Von Kaiser   Lissanna Night Elf Druid   Elune I'm pretty sure we're supposed to have dreamstate. Sometimes, things disappear in certain builds from time to time just to keep us on our toes.
 09/08/10, 12:49 PM #302 Erdluf Great Tiger   Erdluf Night Elf Druid   Echo Isles 85 Moonkin, Direwulf posted a bunch of paper doll screen shots. I plug those values into Excel and I get some rating conversions: Int 2913 -> 6.34% Crit = Conversion: 459.5 Spi 600 -> 541 MP5 = Conversion: 59.9 Haste 787 -> 6.15% = Conversion: 128.0 Hit 541 -> 5.28% = Conversion 102.5 Crit 1035 -> 16.11% = Conversion 64.2 Mastery 543 -> 3.03% = Conversion: 179.2 Spirit -> MP5 assumes the form stays the same MP5 = Spirit*Sqrt(Int)/59.9 I wouldn't be surprised if that 16.11% crit includes base crit and crit-from-int, in which case the conversion should be considerably higher than 64.2. Otherwise, we're looking at crit being only half as expensive as Haste, compared to LK where it is 50% more expensive. Edit: Haste and Hit conversions are 3.9 times the LK values at 80. Mastery conversion is 3.9 times the LK value for Crit. Perhaps the actual conversion for crit equals the conversion for mastery. Last edited by Erdluf : 09/08/10 at 12:55 PM.
09/08/10, 2:09 PM   #303
Carnathagia
Piston Honda

Troll Priest

Mal'Ganis
 Originally Posted by Erdluf Int 2913 -> 6.34% Crit = Conversion: 459.5 Crit 1035 -> 16.11% = Conversion 64.2 I wouldn't be surprised if that 16.11% crit includes base crit and crit-from-int, in which case the conversion should be considerably higher than 64.2. Otherwise, we're looking at crit being only half as expensive as Haste, compared to LK where it is 50% more expensive.
The critical rating conversion is ~179.8. The tooltip value includes the critical from intellect, which is Intellect*.002016. Base spell critical is 0.

For regen, its Sqrt(Int)*Spirit*.016725+Base Regen. The base regen value changes with level. For an 85 Priest, its 1029 mp5. My Druid isn't 85 yet, but if the trend continues, it will be 931.

Emraldè - Resto/Balance Druid - Carnathagia - Holy/Disc Priest - Liltankh - Prot/Fury Warrior
Jovavich - Arcane/Fire Mage

 09/08/10, 2:21 PM #304 Starfox King Hippo     Megalon Tauren Druid   Destromath (EU) ```// Combat ratings for levels 1 - 85 wow build 12857 static double __ptr_gt_combat_ratings[][85] = { // Dodge rating multipliers 176.718994140625000 // Parry rating multipliers 176.718994140625000 // Block rating multipliers 88.359397888183594 // Melee hit rating multipliers 120.109001159667969 // Spell hit rating multipliers 102.445999145507812 // Melee crit rating multipliers 179.279998779296875 // Ranged crit rating multipliers 179.279998779296875 // Spell crit rating multipliers 179.279998779296875 // Melee haste rating multipliers 128.057006835937500 // Ranged haste rating multipliers 128.057006835937500 // Spell haste rating multipliers 128.057006835937500 // Expertise rating multipliers 30.027200698852539 // Mastery rating multipliers 179.279998779296875``` Straight from the MPQ files (someone does this for Simulationcraft for us) Hello. Light the fuse. For all my homies. Do not run, we are your friends. SimulationCraft Druid Guy
09/08/10, 3:58 PM   #305
Erdluf
Great Tiger

Night Elf Druid

Echo Isles
 Originally Posted by Carnathagia For regen, its Sqrt(Int)*Spirit*.016725+Base Regen. The base regen value changes with level. For an 85 Priest, its 1029 mp5. My Druid isn't 85 yet, but if the trend continues, it will be 931.
The screenshot shows combat regen of 931. That is a nice surprise. I wasn't expecting in-combat base regen. It means that even if your mana is drained to zero, you can resume MF spam, (you'd need to melee for an Omen proc if Lunar Shower was down).

09/08/10, 4:45 PM   #306
Ereshmilor
Von Kaiser

Tauren Druid

 // Spell crit rating multipliers 179.279998779296875 // Spell haste rating multipliers 128.057006835937500 // Mastery rating multipliers 179.279998779296875
We should ask for a autoreforging from Mastery to Haste rating.

09/08/10, 7:46 PM   #307
Starfox
King Hippo

Tauren Druid

Destromath (EU)
 Originally Posted by Ereshmilor We should ask for a autoreforging from Mastery to Haste rating.
hehe yea, beta still has quite a few weeks to run and I hope blizzard gets aware of how much our mastery sucks as it is right now.

Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy

 09/09/10, 8:30 AM #308 Ereshmilor Von Kaiser   Ereshmilor Tauren Druid   Madmortem (EU) First of, DoTs should not profit of Eclipse. I like MF to be on the run cast with LS up but not worth casting while standing. IS should be the rolling DoT. My idea on Eclipse: Even if SF and Wrath do the same dps, there is no need to switch between solar and lunar. But what about stacking Eclipse? Something like "If your last Eclipse was not the same as this, this Eclipse is 50% more effectiv", This would force us to switch between Solar and Lunar.
 09/09/10, 4:37 PM #309 Lucrece Von Kaiser   Lunarrayne Night Elf Druid   Whisperwind No, the DoT's need to stay in Eclipse along with possibly Wild Mushroom damage, otherwise damage under pressure in PvP takes a nosedive. Don't make suggestions emphasizing hard casts at the cost of mobile damage since that will always have adverse effects in PvP, and even to some extent fights that might require duties that come with a lot of mobility.
 09/09/10, 7:47 PM #310 Starfox King Hippo     Megalon Tauren Druid   Destromath (EU) ```# Item - Druid T11 Balance 2P Bonus - Increases the critical strike chance of your Insect Swarm and Moonfire spells by 5%. / Instant # Item - Druid T11 Balance 4P Bonus - Whenever Eclipse triggers, your critical strike chance with spells is increased by 99% for 8 sec. Each critical strike you achieve reduces that bonus by 33%. / Instant``` 2p: +5% crit bonus probably a placeholder 4p: boils down to Crit,Crit,>60%crit? Could be nice if being able to time it with solar IS refresh, but on lunar you lose one charge to MF. edit: last but not least MMO-C put up druid changes ``` * Lunar Shower now increases the direct damage done by Moonfire by 15/30/45%. (Old - Increased all damage dealt by Moonfire) * Balance of Power no longer increases your chance to hit with spells, increases your nature and arcane spell damage by 1/2% instead. * Nature's Grace revamped - Increases your spell haste by 1/2/3%.``` LS: I thought it was a tooltip error that it didn't specifically mentioned direct damage in last build BoP: Seems like every caster got their +hit converted into +dmg on those kind of talents, just harde to get hitcapped in early tiers, reforging to hit/spirit. NG: Probably due to all dots being able to scale with haste? Fuels my hope that in this build IS/MF actually scale with haste. Last edited by Starfox : 09/09/10 at 8:47 PM. Hello. Light the fuse. For all my homies. Do not run, we are your friends. SimulationCraft Druid Guy
 09/10/10, 12:40 AM #311 Erdluf Great Tiger   Erdluf Night Elf Druid   Echo Isles 4t11 should certainly encourage rapid Eclipse procs, although that 8s window seems short when nukes take 2-3s to cast (before haste), particularly with NG being scaled back. Assuming Lunar procs when Wrath hits its target, then: Wrath (to proc Eclipse) SF SS SF SF MF might let 5 DD spells land in the 8s window (if you are far from target, and have good haste) giving you a good chance to use those three crits on big spells (or one consolation prize). If your haste isn't good enough for that, I guess you'd prefer to go SF (proc solar) Wr Wr SS Wr MF BoP was probably giving way to much Hit for people running 5-man content, particularly with all that spirit on leather. However, raiders would almost certainly prefer 2% hit to 1% damage.
 09/10/10, 4:36 AM #312 aceofsween Don Flamenco     Jaboom Troll Druid   Lightning's Blade I've noticed that the wording for Starsurge has changed from "whichever is greater" to "whichever is more beneficial to you" in regards to which energy type it gives you... What bothers me is that Euphoria, which suffers a similar problem, doesn't share that same wording. Was Euphoria ever changed to give smart-energy or is it still functioning the same way?
09/10/10, 5:00 AM   #313
Ereshmilor
Von Kaiser

Tauren Druid

 Originally Posted by Starfox Nature's Grace revamped - Increases your spell haste by 1/2/3%. NG: Probably due to all dots being able to scale with haste? Fuels my hope that in this build IS/MF actually scale with haste.
I think this change is very smart. With the low values of crit we can expect, the t11 boni are something you really want to have to boost the old NG. Now a t12 with haste is something you dont want to have or is perhaps isn't even worth it.

Do we still need 17% hit? That would be ~1700 Spirit

Last edited by Ereshmilor : 09/10/10 at 5:09 AM.

 09/10/10, 6:29 AM #314 Starfox King Hippo     Megalon Tauren Druid   Destromath (EU) Glyph changes: PRIME: SF: just got primes MF: +20% dot dmg IS: just got primed W: 10% dmg if IS is up SS: -5s on starfall cd every time SS deals damage Major: Hurricane: -50% movement now Hello. Light the fuse. For all my homies. Do not run, we are your friends. SimulationCraft Druid Guy
09/10/10, 9:31 AM   #315
Cdin
Von Kaiser

Troll Druid

Stonemaul
 Originally Posted by Starfox 2p: +5% crit bonus probably a placeholder
I don't think it's a place holder. If you assume that we will have a 25% crit chance in early raiding and that DoTs make up between 25% and 40% of our total damage, this results in a 1% - 1.5% damage increase. That is in line with the damage increases we saw with the 2piece teir 7 set bonus/
 Originally Posted by Starfox 4p: boils down to Crit,Crit,>60%crit? Could be nice if being able to time it with solar IS refresh, but on lunar you lose one charge to MF.
My big issue here is the 8 second duration. It will be very easy to lose the impact of the buff due to movement, or that third spell not critting if you don't have any time left on the buff. Since it is affectively a 3 charge buff, there is no reason why the duration can't be 15 to 20 seconds at least.
 Originally Posted by Starfox BoP: Seems like every caster got their +hit converted into +dmg on those kind of talents, just harde to get hitcapped in early tiers, reforging to hit/spirit.
I think a lot of people are forgetting that we don't start with zero Spirit. When we hit level 85 we will probably have a couple hundred baked in with out any gear. So BoP will probalby give us 1.5% to 2% hit chance just for being us. Not as good has the 4% that has been on it historically, but it also shouldn't be forgotten.
 Originally Posted by Starfox NG: Probably due to all dots being able to scale with haste? Fuels my hope that in this build IS/MF actually scale with haste.
I agree completely. This definately makes the "When do I cast DoTs" question a lot easier. Though it is a bit disappointing that it is an overall nerf.

www.GrayMatterWoW.blogspot.com - My Moonkin related Blog.

 Elitist Jerks Balance Raiding in Cataclysm