Balance Raiding in Cataclysm - Page 28

• Hamlet · 09/22/10, 2:49 PM

1 GCD for 15s of 15% haste is worth it for Resto Druids; it's a slight gain. If you have a GCD you know you're not doing much with and anticipate wanting to heal a lot in the upcoming few seconds, it's a much better deal, and I think that has potential for pretty good gameplay for Resto.

Arythorn · 09/22/10, 2:54 PM

To keep resto functionality how about,:

"You gain 15% spell haste after you gain Solar or Lunar Eclipse OR after you cast Insect Swarm or Moonfire , lasting 15 sec. This ability has a one minute cooldown . . . yadda, yadda . . . when you gain Eclipse again, the cooldown will instantly reset"

Unwieldy description I know but best I can do while trying to keep it available for Resto and to avoid the wasted GCD / dot clipping in our rotation, which I see as problematic. Other than that, mostly out of ideas.

EDIT: Just messed around with delaying the refresh until the natural expiry / refresh of the dot. What can happen here is that the Haste buff starts later in the cycle and can carry into the next Eclipse proc -- fortunately, it does not get cancelled. So, given that there is pretty much a set amount of casts per Eclipse and when you get the haste is largely less important in the grand scheme, you can just refresh dots on a normal expiry/refresh basis without worrying about when you proc the haste. The only partial issue would be if you carried the haste buff into the next Eclipse and then had a dot about to expire. You would then be put in a situation where you had to either drop the hot or clip the buff. Probably fairly rare . . . especially if Starsurge were working smart again (./prays), as we would have longer Eclipse cycles meaning much smaller likelihood of the haste buff slipping into the ensuing Eclipse.

I'll fuss with that renewal strategy later today or tomorrow.

Kluian · 09/22/10, 4:56 PM

Originally Posted by Arythorn

To keep resto functionality how about,:

"You gain 15% spell haste after you gain Solar or Lunar Eclipse OR after you cast Insect Swarm or Moonfire , lasting 15 sec. This ability has a one minute cooldown . . . yadda, yadda . . . when you gain Eclipse again, the cooldown will instantly reset"

Unwieldy description I know but best I can do while trying to keep it available for Resto and to avoid the wasted GCD / dot clipping in our rotation, which I see as problematic. Other than that, mostly out of ideas.

EDIT: Just messed around with delaying the refresh until the natural expiry / refresh of the dot. What can happen here is that the Haste buff starts later in the cycle and can carry into the next Eclipse proc -- fortunately, it does not get cancelled. So, given that there is pretty much a set amount of casts per Eclipse and when you get the haste is largely less important in the grand scheme, you can just refresh dots on a normal expiry/refresh basis without worrying about when you proc the haste. The only partial issue would be if you carried the haste buff into the next Eclipse and then had a dot about to expire. You would then be put in a situation where you had to either drop the hot or clip the buff. Probably fairly rare . . . especially if Starsurge were working smart again (./prays), as we would have longer Eclipse cycles meaning much smaller likelihood of the haste buff slipping into the ensuing Eclipse.

I'll fuss with that renewal strategy later today or tomorrow.

You might want to consider that you'll be re-apply dots right after Eclipse procs anyways given the current 4 piece T11. You gain 99% crit rate for 8 seconds. Each subsequent crit will reduce that bonus by 33%. Presuming you might cast one spell after eclipse procs, this bonus should be atleast 66+% crit bonus for the future dot applications. Then you'll go back to your normal rotation.

Maybe that bonus won't stay in though... considering it would appear to devalue crit so much for a boomkin in the scheme of things.

Also the haste effect procing off dots seems effective because your dots will gain the haste. You should also be able to re-apply the 2 dots right before the haste buff falls, retaining the hasted dot for the remaining dot application (at least for IS, moonfire dot would have to be clipped if its extended by the glyph).

Arythorn · 09/22/10, 6:58 PM

Originally Posted by Kluian

Also the haste effect procing off dots seems effective because your dots will gain the haste. You should also be able to re-apply the 2 dots right before the haste buff falls, retaining the hasted dot for the remaining dot application (at least for IS, moonfire dot would have to be clipped if its extended by the glyph).

With current talents, both dots would need to be clipped. Add in haste, and they would need to be severely clipped. In a related topic, I'm fairly certain from what I'm seeing that Starfire glyph will have not much value due to how frequently you are likely to clip the dot anyway. Right now on PTR it has value because Sunfire isn't working but once it is . . .

Based on the damage profile I'm seeing and the clipping issues, I'm thinking Primes are likely going to be: almost certainly Insect Swarm and Wrath for the first two and then the third I believe looks like Moonfire (assuming that it would buff both Moonfire and Sunfire by 20% but probably need confirmation on that). I could be convinced that Starsurge might outperform Moonfire but I don't think so based on what I'm currently seeing.

Once Sunfire starts working, I need to find someone on Broxigar PTR with Wrath glyph.

Majors are likely Starfall, Innervate, and take your pick on Hurricane/Monsoon.

Ranghar · 09/23/10, 3:28 AM

Originally Posted by Arythorn

EDIT: Vid is processed and available in HD up at:
YouTube - Boomkin Cataclysm Rotation PTR 12984
This is on Argent Tourney dummy to avoid extra Starfall hits.

If you want to use 83 dummy and avoid extra starfall targets, you need to go to Ironforge shooting range and stand as close as possible to warrior training chamber.

aceofsween · 09/23/10, 5:59 PM

Just thought I'd weigh in on this Nature's Torment Resto talk...

As it stands, while this may be a useful talent to Resto Druids, it's not a very functional talent. Asking a healer to throw up a DoT every minute is a mechanic I don't think they're looking to employ, although Holy Paladins were in a similar situation with Judgements for all of Wrath. To me though, this would be a clunky and obtuse mechanic for Resto to use, no matter how useful it ends up being to them.

The problem is that when it comes to moving into the 2nd tier Balance talents, it's either Nature's Torment or Starlight Wrath. Between the two, it's obvious what the choice would be. There are two juicy Balance talents Resto Druids are going to want: Moonglow and Genesis. If Nature's Torment is going to remain the way it is, I definitely think Genesis or Moonglow need to swap places with it. That gives them progression into our tree without forcing them to invest in a talent that isn't very useful to them.

From all I can understand, Resto is in a tricky position right now. They use nearly 40 talents in their own tree already, which doesn't leave much for sub-speccing. Further forcing them to waste their precious points on talents that are awkward for them mechanically just doesn't seem "fair".

Starfox · 09/24/10, 12:35 AM

Balance
* Wild Mushroom now affects targets within 3 yards, down from 10 yards.
* Entangling Roots now lasts 30 sec, up from 27 sec.
Restoration
* Rebirth no longer costs mana.

Mushroom: More like a bugfix, because the circle already indicated a rather small aoe.
Roots: Yes, so now it has even more time left when roots break

Moonlyt · 09/24/10, 9:49 AM

Originally Posted by Starfox

Mushroom: More like a bugfix, because the circle already indicated a rather small aoe.
Roots: Yes, so now it has even more time left when roots break

I agree. It's not as if roots ever finish their full duration without breaking. It would be nice if they only broke with external damage and not by their own damage. It's just too unreliable to root something and be able to focus on another enemy because you always have to keep tabs on the cc'd one in case the roots break (I'm talking about pve ofc). The new dungeons include more CC mechanics and no one will want a druid that has a cc that breaks. I guess the only way is to either cyclone or glyph for it to be instant so you can root again as soon as they break.

Arythorn · 09/24/10, 11:35 AM

Someone commented on my Youtube vid that a /cast moonfire macro let them cast Sunfire during Solar. Glory hallelujah it does, at least on PTR. Give it a shot -- I'm going to be messing around with Sunfire rotation and testing lunar shower sunfire spam dps theory as well. Anyone on beta, feel free to give that macro a shot and see if it works on there as welll.

EDIT 1: PTR is in strange state right now with servers being at one build 13033 and clients being at 12984 and not getting the patch but something is very strange about Insect Swarm atm. It's leading damage now, staying ahead of Starfire and Wrath -- an between that and Sunfire, I've gone from 12k to 14k sustained. Something strange is afoot at the Circle K.

EDIT 2: Patch just force downloaded and PTR client and server agree now. Sadly, IceHUD Eclipse bar is temorarily broken atm though - shame as that has made it a ton easier for me to monitor Eclipse state based on it's placement. I can verify that Starfire glyph extends both Sunfire and/or Moonfire. I would expect that Moonfire glyph may buff both then as well -- somehow they have linked the two together. I can also say that I will be replacing Starfire glyph -- definitely causes clipping issues with Sunfire now available. I still need to find a Wrath glyph on Broxigar PTR -- if anyone has an inscriptionist there and can mail one to Calculatéd (alt-130 for the special e).

azzagachoo · 09/24/10, 1:24 PM

Omen of Clarity is also proccing far more often than before on PTR, especially during starfall, during which I consistently notice as many as 4 or 5 procs, which I'm assuming is a bug of some description.

I have been on the dummies twice today - once in the morning (9:30am GMT) and once just now (18:20pm GMT), and there was nothing out of the ordinary this morning concerning OoC, however I did notice an increase in dps so it's somewhat possible I didn't notice it proccing like crazy, however I did not experience IS doing more damage than wrath and starfire (however I do not have it glyped).

Strange goings on indeed.

Yijiao · 09/24/10, 1:38 PM

I have a question about stat value. Before soft cap haste, haste was roughly equal to spell power for us this expansion. If our DoTs do end up scaling with haste, is that going to become significantly more powerful that Spell Power because there is no soft cap? I was just curious if anyone had done the stat breakdown.

Obviously, more haste pushes us into the next eclipse faster relative to natures torrent, so the more haste, the better, in my opinion.

Erdluf · 09/24/10, 1:46 PM

Current combat ratings dropped by a factor of 3.9. Valuation looks like

SP > Hit > Haste > Crit > Mastery

If we start getting more ticks from Haste, it will be close to Hit (but still behind it). If not, it is not that far ahead of Crit.

Arythorn · 09/24/10, 3:16 PM

PTR was bounced and client is patched to 13033 now as well so everything should be on the up and up but I am still doing 14.5k+ sustained on Argent Dummy with Insect Swarm leading the way on damage. Moving to another dummy in cities to see if maybe a dummy is bugged. Will post logs as well once I get a bit larger sample size in them.

EDIT: OOC is proc'ing like mad. I don't even need the logs to tell that. More to come.

Zojun · 09/24/10, 3:51 PM

Did a quick test on the PTR now our DoTs (with the exception of Sunfire) are scaling with haste.

DoT times are dynamic to haste gains; the DoT you cast to proc NT following an Eclipse does benefit from the 15% haste itself. My IS which procced NT was ticking every 1.23s, then every 1.42s after NT wore off (with no refresh). At least, according to the tooltips. I'm not seeing any additional ticks while I have NT up for some reason (I should get 12 ticks under that hastened 15s but I'm only getting 10).

Edit:
- Something weird is up with SS energy. It's sometimes not helpful (shortening Eclipses near to when I've procced them), but then nearer the end (before the buff is about to wear off) it started to give smart energy. After it gave smart energy once under an eclipse, it continued to for that Eclipse. You proc another, it starts off shortening again.

Arythorn · 09/24/10, 4:46 PM

Heh, whatever is going on with OoC, I sure am getting some good use out of my 2 pc T10 bonus atm

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

AND

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

EDIT: Re-posted log as it was bugged and added a second longer log as well.