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Old 09/28/10, 10:47 AM   #451
MÃ nze
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackhand (EU)
Originally Posted by aceofsween View Post
Don't forget that you can reforge all of the spirit on these items into another stat too.

Unfortunately you can't. Not on PTR at least. [Frozen Bonespike] e.g. i could only reforge 26 spirit to 26 haste.
Don't have any Bluepost about it, but it seems you can only reforge about 40% of the "useless" stat. But i would say, we will need all of theese nonset items with spirit aka hit on them, since t11 doesn't have any on it.

edit: Hyperspeed Accelerators got slightly nerfed at PTR down to 240 haste for 12sek, can't say if it is intended.

Last edited by MÃ nze : 09/28/10 at 10:53 AM.

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Old 09/28/10, 11:34 AM   #452
Ereshmilor
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Madmortem (EU)
I have no clue how it is in beta, but on the PTR you can only reforge to a new stat. So if there is haste on the item, you can't add haste.

i really hope then make good leather items, so that BiS will be leather, and not Cloth but hey, not 5% but close with 3 offset items

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Old 09/28/10, 11:43 AM   #453
Kluian
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
It's not like you can totally ignore spirit regardless. There are no more hit talents in the game from what I understand (at least that you can obtain from other classes/racials.)

In order to obtain 17% hit you are going to need 2612 spirit on your gear. If none of your tier pieces have spirit... then you're going to pretty much going to need spirit on every non-tier piece to even get remotely close to that. You'll probably even have to use a hit trinket.

And where in that post does GC state they are changing spirit/hit to devalue as tiers go on so that you need more of it? I didn't see that.

I imagine as tiers progress you'll then start reforging spirit off gear for other stats because you'll be at the cap.

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Old 09/28/10, 11:47 AM   #454
klüger
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
He may not have said it in that post, but it has been stated on multiple occasions. It's a way to circumvent the problem of not having the opportunity to put much hit on upper lvl items due to everyone being capped.

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Old 09/28/10, 11:56 AM   #455
Arythorn
Don Flamenco
 
Arythorn's Avatar
 
Worgen Druid
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by M� nze View Post
edit: Hyperspeed Accelerators got slightly nerfed at PTR down to 240 haste for 12sek, can't say if it is intended.
Rather disappointing. On the upside, I've heard (not yet confirmed) that Engineering tinkers now stack "in addition to" and not "in replacement of" other enchants. So 28 sp + Hyperspeed on gloves would be workable. Again not confirmed yet.

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Old 09/28/10, 11:57 AM   #456
Kluian
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
Well regardless I think people are overreacting with spirit on leather gear. You're going to have a tough time reaching the hit cap in tier 1 base on the ilvl 359 gear I was looking at. It looks like you're going to have to actually reforge your gear to gain hit/spirit on all of your tier to reach the 2612 mark.

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Old 09/28/10, 12:00 PM   #457
Hyperion
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Thrall
In order to obtain 17% hit you are going to need 2612 spirit on your gear.
That number seems way off, Graylo over at graymatterwow.blogspot.com said he found and is almost sure the number will be 1742.

If none of your tier pieces have spirit
Which appears to be the case based on mmochampion's datamining. It means we have 13 slots (if we use 4/5 tier pieces) to reach the hit cap. Now, based on an item like this: Robes of Forgetfulness - Items - Sigrie, I really don't think we're going to have any problems reaching the cap.

EDIT: Though it does look like Blizzard is rolling healing/dps leather gear into one package, which could end up being poorly itemized compared to cloth items.

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Old 09/28/10, 12:07 PM   #458
klüger
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Kluian View Post
Well regardless I think people are overreacting with spirit on leather gear. You're going to have a tough time reaching the hit cap in tier 1 base on the ilvl 359 gear I was looking at. It looks like you're going to have to actually reforge your gear to gain hit/spirit on all of your tier to reach the 2612 mark.
Which is the opposite of what the problem is (or half of it).

Tierpieces have 0 spirit. To reach hitcap, everything else must have hit/spirit.

And until you get tierpieces you will prolly have way too much hit, at least if you are going to try to get the all-leather-bonus.

It's a solution(the hit/spirit thing) with a lot of problems.

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Old 09/28/10, 12:08 PM   #459
Kluian
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
Poorly itemized how? When you see spirit on an item just think "hit" rating. They are 1/1 conversion and worth equal amount in ilvl budget. There will be plenty of haste/crt/mastery items on cloak / ring / trinkets. I really doubt you'll have so much hit / spirit on some random gear that you'd complain that you have forced spirit on belt / bracer / boots (these are the only 3 items you'll be forced to wear with spirit). Your tier gear doesn't even have spirit or hit. I'm almost certain Moonkins are going to have to reforge a lot of their gear so they have spirit/hit.

Originally Posted by klüger View Post
Which is the opposite of what the problem is (or half of it).

Tierpieces have 0 spirit. To reach hitcap, everything else must have hit/spirit.

And until you get tierpieces you will prolly have way too much hit, at least if you are going to try to get the all-leather-bonus.

It's a solution(the hit/spirit thing) with a lot of problems.
Except that is where reforging plays a role. It makes a lot of breathing room.

Raiding in heroic blue gear (reforge spirit off if you're over cap until tier gear)

Raiding in tier gear (reforge spirit on)

Last edited by Narcosleepy : 09/28/10 at 12:31 PM.

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Old 09/28/10, 3:25 PM   #460
Ektoplasme
Von Kaiser
 
Ektoplasme's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Eitrigg (EU)
Originally Posted by Kluian View Post
And where in that post does GC state they are changing spirit/hit to devalue as tiers go on so that you need more of it? I didn't see that.
I assume you didn't read it so I'll quote it directly for you (from MMO-Champion BlueTracker | The problem with hit scaling in raid tiers ):

Instead, we are just faking the bosses gaining levels. We haven't worked out the exact mechanic yet, but imagine they are level 88++ or level 88.3 or level 88 SKULL SKULL BAD SKULL. As you get more powerful and get better gear, they get more powerful... exactly like all those bosses you handled while leveling up. Rather than critting and hitting the more dangerous opponents more often, your relative power stays about the same. You scale.
As he said, the exact mechanic is not worked out yet. But the general idea won't change: the boss will scale with us. So you will need more and more hit to hit them, expertise to avoid the dodge, crit to circumvent the crit reduction etc.

That's an excellent idea. It means that if the spirit available on T11 gear is roughly the correct amount to reach the hit cap (within the 40% margin that is allowed by reforging, which is confortable) it will still be the correct amount in T14, we won't be flooded with spirit/hit because we'll need more.

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Old 09/28/10, 3:54 PM   #461
aceofsween
Don Flamenco
 
aceofsween's Avatar
 
Troll Druid
 
Lightning's Blade
The only reason bosses are scaling is because of the item budget issues of Icecrown. Just to point out one example: several items (staffs particularly) had so much hit on them that they were completely and utterly worthless to everyone. No one needs 120 hit on a single item in Wrath. This system of boss scaling was designed so that the would have more room for those stats to actually be useful.

Personally, I think it's kind of a poor excuse (what is the big deal with giving people the stats they want anyway?), but at the same time you can't really blame them. There are only so many stats around, so this setup is an attempt to make certain stats more valuable by removing the standard cap for all raid setups.

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Old 09/29/10, 12:55 AM   #462
cubed
Glass Joe
 
Harin
Night Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Arythorn View Post
Rather disappointing. On the upside, I've heard (not yet confirmed) that Engineering tinkers now stack "in addition to" and not "in replacement of" other enchants. So 28 sp + Hyperspeed on gloves would be workable. Again not confirmed yet.
I can confirm that this is true on the current build on the PTR, and I would assume beta as well.

edit: However, it seems to be slightly bugged, as you must apply the enchant yourself (I did this via vellum). When I tried to have an enchanter do it via trade he said he received an error telling him he needed to be an engineer.

Last edited by cubed : 09/29/10 at 1:17 AM.

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Old 09/29/10, 2:33 AM   #463
Arythorn
Don Flamenco
 
Arythorn's Avatar
 
Worgen Druid
 
Ysera
PTR Build 13082 fixed the Omen of Clarity bug (at least for Balance). I expected my sustained dps to drop over 1k after that fix but I just sustained 14.2k for right around 1 hour / 50 million damage. I wanted to get a good sample size but, especially after 4 hours of raiding, my hands hurt now Couldn't help myself -- was antsy to see what final numbers looked like as I think we are getting very close to a 4.0 build at this point.

Anywho, log linked below:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Interesting numbers:

Nature's Grace uptime: 60.5%
Lunar Eclipse uptime: 33.3%
Solar Eclipse uptime: 31.2%

I was sitting at 3735 sp, 29.86% haste (979), 17.5% hit (capped), 49.98% crit (1362) and default 8 mastery. Mix in some heroic Phylactery and DFO procs, rep ring procs, and Hyperspeed gloves as well. Prime glyphs used are Insect Swarm, Wrath, and Starsurge. Major is Starfall.

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Old 09/29/10, 4:16 AM   #464
Moonlyt
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Lightbringer (EU)
Everyone is saying that you'll get enough hit from non-tier pieces. Doesn't anyone want choice? Wouldn't you like to be able to take trinkets, rings, weapons without hit? It's better to be over hit cap and reforge spirit into haste, that way when the new raids come out and the hit cap is raised all you have to do is un-reforge to get more spirit.

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Old 09/29/10, 4:54 AM   #465
Frenzi
King Hippo
 
Frenzy
Troll Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Aren't we in a better position than clothies due to hit from Spirit? OK our Tier gear has none at all which leaves boots, bracers and belt but there is also the possibility that we could pick up a healer cloak, rings and/or weapon if we need too and we still have the option to pick up specific DPS versions of these too? Don't personally think we will need hit trinkets as much as the clothies will.

Not entirely sure why people are stressing so much over gear at the moment honestly with the options this change has opened up for us?


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