[WOTLK 4.0] Cats - Page 16

Blazefire · 10/06/10, 2:33 PM

I would think that for yellow gems, maybe haste gems instead of crit, since we're already very high in crit and all the red gems going agi will just add more already. As far as reforging, I think I'd dump some if that crit into either hit of expertise, particularly with the loss of the 10 expertise talent.

Leafkiller · 10/06/10, 4:17 PM

I am leaning toward gemming to get hit and exp capped, and then shifting to agi and haste. For reforging I am leaning towards mastery.

This is based on the notion that agi > mastery > haste and at level 80 there is no gem for mastery (there is one at level 81 that is yellow - so it will be competing directly with haste).

The nod towards capping hit and expertise is due to the desire to reliably refresh rip and rake during TF.

kalbear · 10/06/10, 5:17 PM

Note that all ferals will lose 10 expertise skill right away when 4.0.1 hits, so that's an obvious regemming need. From most testing I've seen agility trumps everything else, and reforging mastery doesn't gain a significant amount over haste or crit (if anything).

golle · 10/06/10, 5:30 PM

I am currently in pretty much BiS setup(Aldriana gloves and rest T10) although most of it is 264-gear.

When patch hits I'm probably going to swap my gloves for the T10 ones and use the ifkuru sack of wonder to cover the expertise loss from the talent. The Hit-bit in the chest I will probably reforge into Mastery.

All other gear will have its crit reforged into mastery which should land me at about 19 (540ish rating) mastery and 55% crit(no form). I will have 25% haste from my gear. I will probably swap all my gems for Agi since I won't need my hit gems and I'll be expertise capped.
Agility does seem like the better choice as even though I'll drop in crit a bit I will have my 2 AP gain per Agi point which will boost the dmg of all my attacks. Of course, I have no math to support this.

I don't really like reforging mastery since at the moment Rip uptime will go down as I want to have TF active before I re-Rip and Rake. This means I probably will let it tick for 22 sec and during that time FB once and then use the remaining time saving CPs for when TF is off CD. This is pretty much 5 sec less Rip than normally, but all its damage buffed by 15%.

Hoofhearted · 10/06/10, 7:17 PM

Losing 2 or 3 out of 11 ticks of rip is a bigger loss than what you gain from having those 11 ticks 15% stronger.

alarge · 10/06/10, 9:27 PM

Ok, let me see if I can summarize for more clarity (with some guesses):

Stat priority:
* hit(B, sec) > exp(R, sec) > agi(R, pri) > haste(Y, sec) > mastery(Y, sec) > crit(Y, sec) > all else

Where:
* BRY = gem color
* pri = not reforge-able
* sec = reforge-able

Of course, hit and exp are assumed to be below cap (anyone know if the cap is changing with the patch? and to what if so?)

So a reasonable strategy might be:

Gemming:
* Gem hit in all blue sockets (hybrid with agi? or full?) until capped
* Gem for agility in all red
* Gem for haste in all yellow sockets (probably hybrid with agi)

Reforging:
* Reforge to hit until capped (using crit first, then mastery, and then haste)
* Reforge to exp until capped (using crit first, then mastery, and then haste)
* Reforge to mastery? (crit only)

kalbear · 10/06/10, 9:59 PM

Both hit and expertise conversions have decreased at 80. The new caps are:

Expertise: 199.90594 (higher because of the loss of primal precision)
Hit: 246.0384 (lower)
Or 200 expertise, 247 hit.

Maeltne · 10/07/10, 1:44 AM

EDIT: just realized the BERSERK refreshing the CD on Mangle throws any sort of macro out the window.

So I'm just getting ready for 4.0.1 as a feral bear. Reading through this thread, my own (probably bad) in game testing, and Astrylian's [sp] excellent theory crafting thread, I've come up with the following approximate threat values at my level of gear:

Faerie Fire: 4k
Mangle: 10k
Lacerate: 7k
Lacerate tick: 500
Pulverize (3-stack):12k
Swipe: 7.5k
Maul: 4.5k

Now Faerie Fire has 0 rage cost, swipe&maul 30, and the rest 15. So there are 2 measures to maximize here. One would be raw TPS, and the other TPS/rage.

Thus it seems for single target DPS Swipe should be excluded entirely, and Faerie Fire should only be used in (1) rage light situations, and (2) to maintain the debuff. Maul should obviously be saved for rage heavy situations.

Seems like it should be easily macro'able into a cast sequence (or several of them for different situations).

i.e.
Rage Light Single Target
/castsequence reset=6/target Faerie Fire (feral), Mangle, Lacerate, Lacerate, Faerie Fire (feral), Mangle, Lacerate, Pulverize

Rage Heavy Single Target
/castsequence reset=6/target Mangle, Lacerate, Lacerate, Lacerate, Mangle, Pulverize, Lacerate, Lacerate, Mangle, Lacerate, Pulverize, Lacerate, Mangle, Lacerate, Lacerate, Pulverize

Rage Light AoE
/castsequence reset=6/target Faerie Fire (Feral), Mangle, Swipe, Lacerate, Faerie Fire (Feral), Mangle, Swipe, Lacerate, Faerie Fire (Feral), Mangle, Swipe, Lacerate, Faerie Fire (Feral), Mangle, Swipe, Pulverize

Rage Heavy AoE
/castsequence reset=6/target Mangle, Swipe, Lacerate, Lacerate, Mangle, Swipe, Lacerate, Pulverize

NOTE: Swipe currently has a 6s CD, while the cata wowhead shows Thunderclap as having no CD. Is one of these going to change?
NOTE2: I made these macros without access to the in game client, so there may be typos.

Keep these beside a Maul keybind and when having a surplus of rage press both, otherwise just the appropriate macro.

Question: does haste reduce the melee GCD now (I seem to recall reading something about this)? Or it just the extra energy/focus/etc? If it does reduce melee GCD, there is an interesting question of when it is beneficial to fit in 4 abilities between mangles as opposed to 3.

Koril · 10/07/10, 6:03 AM

Originally Posted by Hoofhearted

Losing 2 or 3 out of 11 ticks of rip is a bigger loss than what you gain from having those 11 ticks 15% stronger.

You are right, but refreshing Rip each 27 sec instead of 22 also means saving combo points. Thanks to tiger fury buffing rip, the loss from the rip uptime is lowered, compared to the live. At some point, the extra CP will be converted in a Ferocious Bite. So depending on the number, then maybe in a long run, waiting for TF to reapply rip is actually optimal. It seems it is the case (according by some dummy test done on PTR by some guy, see official forum), but I still don't manage to log on the PTR to get the numbers (ie rip damage and ferocious bite damage). Plus the ratio Rip/FB is affected by mastery, and thus, by gear.

About bear rotation, what about waiting the last lacerate tick to hit pulverize in the "rage light single target"? Anyway you're right, berzerk kills macro and it is a good thing in my honest opinion. But I think that single target tanking will be about hiting pulverize at the right time, ie : the less rage you have, the longer you let lacerate ticks. That sounds fun!

Nich · 10/07/10, 7:13 AM

I wasn't paying a lot of attention, but in the 'wait for TF to come up before reapplying Rip' scenario, I found I usually had enough time to FB or refresh SR, have no energy left, hit TF to get energy and the damage bonus, rake, shred a bit, and reapply rip before the damage buff fell off.

It may be better to always have rip going compared to having some downtime on rip, but I think it's better to compare them by having 100% rip uptime vs 80% + other stuff.

Whissa · 10/07/10, 4:26 PM

Just been playing beta and copied my character across. Have noticed that all my Arp gems have been converted to crit gems. What do you guys think of this in the context of levelling as quickly as possible?

• Caniki · 10/07/10, 4:31 PM

All of your gear will be replaced by level 82, so it doesn't really matter.

Windchilla · 10/07/10, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by Whissa

Just been playing beta and copied my character across. Have noticed that all my Arp gems have been converted to crit gems. What do you guys think of this in the context of levelling as quickly as possible?

As a person who has a rather embarrassing Feat of Strength related to such activities my suggestion would be not to waste time and energy refitting your old gear for new-world leveling. You'll pick up loads of upgrades in the first few days and very few LK pieces will last you through 85.

My best advice would be do whatever is in your power to make your character as fast as possible. This means all relevant speed enchants and any set bonuses which enhance your character's speed (dragonhide pvp set).

Nestario · 10/07/10, 6:27 PM

@whissa: Since the itemization change will happen before level 81-85 content is released it will have no impact at all.

However i have been wondering what our first few moves will look like in a usual bossfight.

Initial opening will be Feral Charge and Ravage in most cases.
But there are several ways to continue after that.

I wonder if it will be worth to squeeze in a Shred without any bleed debuff up to get Rip and Rake both buffed by 15% from TF.
FC>Ravage>SR>Mangle>Shred>TF>rake>rip.
Note that any OOC-Proc and energy from haste within the first 5s will be lost or used for another Shred on the non-bleeding Target.

This is going fo a damn early first TF. But assuming that clipping rake will not be worth it you would not be able to get the Buff up on your very first one.
If you would clip I assume going for 3-4cp SR first and getting TF+ Rip and the 2nd Rake delayed just before TF runs out should be the best opener.

Not changing anything at all is still an Option but Rake +15% should be worth a lot more Damage than Shred +20% but may balance out because rake is 2-3s late. And in a raiding environment Warrior bleeds will even be up almost instantly.

Koril · 10/07/10, 7:10 PM

Originally Posted by Nestario

FC>Ravage>SR>Mangle>Shred>TF>rake>rip.

For sure, it will be better to mangle first, so you start regenerating energy as soon as possible, and you hit ravage later. I agree that it's better to hit a few non-bleed-buffed shred to get the TF-buffed rake, but my guess is that it would be ok to use TF sooner, even if you cap your energy, use your free ravage after rip/rake so you will get close to the 100+ energy, and then pop berserk (assuming you want to berserk at pull). Thus you get TF buff on rip, rake, and ravage, and don't hit too much non-buffed shred. This is because I think TF becomes a more important cooldown, and we want it to be on CD as soon as possible (the same way we do for berserk). So i would say :
FC > mangle > SR > TF > rake > rip > ravage > pool energy > berserk.

The only problem is the energy cap, but I guess that with a few haste, berserk use here, and glyph of tiger fury, you won't need that must energy before your next TF. Correct me if I am wrong!