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Old 10/15/10, 4:50 AM   #331
Aradiel
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
I just realized that Death's Verdict is alot better now and I'm pondering if I should start using it instead of Sharpened Twilight Scale. Trinkets with agility (either proc or passive) seem to be rather good atm. I'm waiting for Yawning to update Mew so I can se how the DPS buffs have affected stat values. After that it shouldn't be that hard to determin what trinket to use. Really quick napkin math would suggest DV actually beign better, but at this point I'm just making guesses on the stat values.


STS
65 Mastery rating (reforged)
98 Crit rating
Proc for 1304 AP
+Higher item level
+crit can be reforged to mastery
-weak stat on proc

DV
288 AP
Proc for 510 agility
+incredible proc (over-itemization)
-Lower itemlevel
-poor static stat that can't be reforged.

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Old 10/15/10, 7:10 AM   #332
Ptah
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Drak'thul (EU)
Hi, is there any reason to have feral tank and feral dps in one thread? It's quite messy...

Sorry for the off-topic...

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Old 10/15/10, 7:30 AM   #333
Mihir
Piston Honda
 
Mihir's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by Aradiel View Post
I just realized that Death's Verdict is alot better now and I'm pondering if I should start using it instead of Sharpened Twilight Scale. Trinkets with agility (either proc or passive) seem to be rather good atm. I'm waiting for Yawning to update Mew so I can se how the DPS buffs have affected stat values. After that it shouldn't be that hard to determin what trinket to use. Really quick napkin math would suggest DV actually beign better, but at this point I'm just making guesses on the stat values.


STS
65 Mastery rating (reforged)
98 Crit rating
Proc for 1304 AP
+Higher item level
+crit can be reforged to mastery
-weak stat on proc

DV
288 AP
Proc for 510 agility
+incredible proc (over-itemization)
-Lower itemlevel
-poor static stat that can't be reforged.
I toyed with this idea as well, except i was comparing death's choice normal vs deathbringer's will heroic. DC normal's proc actually wins out, but the mastery/crit pulled dbw hc ahead of dc normal. In your case it's different tho; using Mew to calculate values based on my current gear (crit capped, as much mastery/agility as is possible to get), you get the following stat values:

dv hc:
288ap * 1.25 from aggression * 1.145 relative stat value = 412 dps
proc = 603 dps
total: 1015 dps

sts normal
65 mastery * 2.75 relative stat value = 179 dps
98 crit rating * 1.88 relative stat value = 184 dps
proc = 382 dps
total: 745 dps

It might be slightly different for you depending on your gear, but I don't think any gear would make enough of a difference to make a ~300 dps difference in trinket values.

Although AP cannot be reforged, it's item budget value is higher than that of crit rating (since you get 2 ap for 1 item budget value, putting ap's relative value item budget wise at 2.29, compared to mastery at 2.75 and crit at 1.88), so the passive stats aren't that far from each other.

Last edited by Mihir : 10/15/10 at 7:36 AM.

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Old 10/15/10, 7:40 AM   #334
Aradiel
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
A new version of Mew just came out and using the stat values heroic DV does seem to win even against normal STS a little bit. The newest Mew did have some issues though. Rake had an old formula and there were some other anomalies, but I doubt the stat values will change too much. I also realized that DBW isn't that good anymore even with the amazing agi proc since it's only a 1 out of 3 chance. Right now it seems like DV (heroic) > STS (normal) > DBW (normal). These are the trinkets I have access to right now. I'll do some more research once Mew gets a new version.

Edit: I don't think you are suppose to multiply relative stat value with aggression. I think it's allready in there.

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Old 10/15/10, 8:26 AM   #335
Gurrshael
Von Kaiser
 
Gurrshael's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Drak'thul (EU)
Originally Posted by Daefecator View Post
Is anyone able to use Ravage after Feral Charge via a macro? I bound

/use [mod:alt]Feral Charge(cat form);Ravage

to 1, and alt-1 1 combination didn't work for me neither on training dummy nor Sindragosa 25 HM.
/castsequence reset=10 Feral Charge (Cat Form), Ravage
It's kinda buggy though. I managed to get it to work only after I placed Ravage directly somewhere on a bar (hidden in the corner).

You have to press the macro twice to charge & ravage, but you can charge, use some other skills to consume energy, TF and then Ravage with 15% damage buff.

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Old 10/15/10, 9:32 AM   #336
Mihir
Piston Honda
 
Mihir's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by Aradiel View Post
I don't think you are suppose to multiply relative stat value with aggression. I think it's allready in there.
You're right. I got a bit confused since the AP input field takes the AP value after aggression (ap from char sheet), while the relative stat values output is before feral aggression (ap from item).

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Old 10/15/10, 9:50 AM   #337
Aradiel
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
With the newest version of Mew and my approximate stats I get the following results.

DBW (normal) = 1031 avg (794 - 1276 depending on what procs)
STS (normal) = 1150
DV (heroic) = 1269
DV (normal) = 1122

So if the Mew data is accurate looks like Heroic DV is one sweet trinket.

The relative statvalues I got were:
Agi 4.87921
Haste 2.041
Crit 2.129
Mastery 4.035
str 3.389

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Old 10/15/10, 10:35 AM   #338
Defyn
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Ysondre
With my current gear, I cannot get H DC to model higher DPS than my H STS. DC also loses a lot more of its benefit if you're not using the proc (due to moving, etc...), whereas passive crit and mastery are very good right now, so I'd be hesitant to use DC over SHS in most situations. At least for me, it doesn't even look like swapping would benefit me on certain fights due to crit cap (H DBW in second trinket slot).

H STS (reforged mastery):

DPS: 17837.6
Crit Rating: 1246
AttackPower: 504
Mastery Rating: 595
RSVs: Agi = 4.57, Str = 3.2, AP = 1.52, Haste = 2.05, Crit = 1.94, Mastery = 3.89, Hit = 2.73, Expertise = 2.75


H DC:

DPS: 17795.65
Crit Rating: 1135
AttackPower: 864
Mastery Rating: 522
RSVs: Agi = 4.52, Str = 3.15, AP = 1.5, Haste = 2.07, Crit = 1.94, Mastery = 3.94, Hit = 2.77, Expertise = 2.79


TotT, Unholy Frenzy, Shattering Throw, and Dark Intent not checked.

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Old 10/15/10, 2:04 PM   #339
JaymzHendo
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eldre'Thalas
In regards to opening rotations - I've been running a FC - Mangle - Roar - Shred - Ravage (should be 4cp's now) - TF - Rake - Rip - continuing from here as we always have. Anyone see any problems here? I know I'm losing the 15% buff to that first shred but i'm using it to dump energy before the TF (you could switch the ravage and shred to better accomplish this but instead I only spec'd 1 of 2 stampede) and then using the guaranteed Ravage crit for automatic 2 cps, and a GCD of energy regen going into that TF in which immediately getting Rake and Rip up and then 3-4 shreds allowing for immediate FB while still at good energy levels. Any thoughts on this appreciated.

Last edited by JaymzHendo : 10/15/10 at 11:15 PM.

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Old 10/15/10, 2:20 PM   #340
Pelf
Glass Joe
 
Pelf's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Gorefiend
Originally Posted by Daefecator View Post
Is anyone able to use Ravage after Feral Charge via a macro? I bound
/use [mod:alt]Feral Charge(cat form);Ravage
to 1, and alt-1 1 combination didn't work for me neither on training dummy nor Sindragosa 25 HM.
Though an alternate macro was posted, to your original problem: the usual reason something like this doesn't work is that you have something else, somewhere, bound to <modifier>+<key>. Check your keybindings for conflicts. Keybindings will always take priority over macro conditionals.

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Old 10/15/10, 3:07 PM   #341
Nganga
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Silver Hand
Originally Posted by Gurrshael View Post
/castsequence reset=10 Feral Charge (Cat Form), Ravage
It's kinda buggy though. I managed to get it to work only after I placed Ravage directly somewhere on a bar (hidden in the corner).

You have to press the macro twice to charge & ravage, but you can charge, use some other skills to consume energy, TF and then Ravage with 15% damage buff.
#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=10 Feral Charge(Cat Form), Ravage

Works perfectly. Shows Charge icon, then Ravage for 10 sec, then back to Charge. Note no space between "Feral Charge" and "(Cat Form)", which may be why it was buggy for you. Spamming it while soloing I am able to consistently get the Ravage in even when it appears the target has turned and I am no longer behind it. I am assuming this is a server lag issue, but a handy one.

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Old 10/15/10, 3:37 PM   #342
Petitourson
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Conseil des Ombres (EU)
Originally Posted by JaymzHendo View Post
I think its important to note due to the fact that we have lots of "new" kitty's coming to this thread to get answers or read up. When you guys talk about getting hit/exp capped. Special attacks are subject to a 5% hit needed to not miss. I've had several "newer" kitties come to me saying "EJ said I need to be hit capped so I'm gemming Hit to 8% right?"
I'm not sure I get your point, but 8% hit is indeed needed to defeat a lvl83 boss/mob's chance of missing. This percentage applies to both specials and white swings. I agree with your recommendation though.

Last edited by Petitourson : 10/15/10 at 3:44 PM.

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Old 10/15/10, 3:52 PM   #343
a civilian
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Sargeras
Quick observation:

Berserk no longer removes the tiger's fury buff. [edit: removed misinformation]

On a tangentially related note, you can /cancelaura Primal Madness at 0 energy to maximize the energy gain from this talent.

Edit:
Originally Posted by Koril View Post
That sound great but after testing that on a dummy, I didn't observed the same thing as you. Although I actualy do not loose any energy at the end of TF, I do not win energy when I hit berserk. So you just deal a "gain/lost/gain/lost" to a simple "gain/lost", if you see what I mean!
I did a few test but I have some delay, so I am not sure of that....
You're right. Either I imagined it or it changed since I last checked, but as of right now I'm definitely not getting the energy.

Last edited by a civilian : 10/16/10 at 2:34 AM.

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Old 10/15/10, 4:28 PM   #344
Leafkiller
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by JaymzHendo View Post
In regards to opening rotations - I've been running a FC - Mangle - Roar - Shred - Ravage (should be 4cp's now) - TF - Rake - Rip - continuing from here as we always have.
In my testing, the DPS contribution of Roar is sitting around 6% (I typically see melee at 18% of my damage) while the DPS contribution from Rip is around 30%. Accordingly, I now prioritize Rip ahead of Roar. So for an opening - get to two+ combo points with low energy, TF, Rake, (Shred as needed), Rip, Shred, Roar, Berserk, etc. A free Ravage should be as late as possible to maximize energy use. Continuing the cycle, never Roar if it will result in Rip downtime (I am using a 6 second check to prevent this currently).

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Old 10/15/10, 6:11 PM   #345
Daefecator
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Ревущий фьорд (EU)
Regarding stampeded ravage macro

Thanks everyone who helped with ideas. But the real deal was in having Ravage spell button (not macro'ed one, directly from spellbook) somewhere on your bars. Try using a macro you like the most (sure, I definitely have alt+1 key unbound) while having Ravage somewhere on a bar and then try remove that spell button off bars. You'll notice the difference for sure. I also updated my previous post for clarification.

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