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Old 07/02/10, 11:20 AM   #46
• Melthu
Confused
 
Troll Druid
 
Alterac Mountains
It's much too early to be thinking in terms of rotations. Glyphs, as Cluey pointed out, might as well be a blank slate right now, the talent tree has only been given a first pass, and even the costs and damage of individual abilities are nowhere near set in stone. All we can say with any degree of certainty is that the fundamentals of our rotation are unlikely to change much: keep up SR, Mangle, Rake, Rip, and Shred for combo points, with some new wrinkles of Ferocious Bite <25% and possibly using Ravage when presented with the opportunity.

What I will say is that as of right now Ravage has gotten the same treatment that Rake did during WotLK and if the talent points are available Improved Feral Charge will likely be well worth the investment, if not Predatory Strikes.

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Old 07/02/10, 2:02 PM   #47
Mews
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
You might wanna consider that Imp Feral charge(Cat)/Predatory strikes is there as a tool to lessen the impact of target switching to adds rather than an addition to the "standard DPS rotation".

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Old 07/02/10, 2:16 PM   #48
Grend
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Mews View Post
You might wanna consider that Imp Feral charge(Cat)/Predatory strikes is there as a tool to lessen the impact of target switching to adds rather than an addition to the "standard DPS rotation".
As well as this being strictly an addition for feral PvP. It's quite possible for them to tune this completely towards PvP target switches rather than, "Hey this will help ferals in PvP, but let's do X before release so it's useful in PvE as well".

Doesn't need to be useful for PvE at all.

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Old 07/02/10, 3:43 PM   #49
Duilliath
Great Tiger
 
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Duilliath
Night Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Melthu View Post
What I will say is that as of right now Ravage has gotten the same treatment that Rake did during WotLK and if the talent points are available Improved Feral Charge will likely be well worth the investment, if not Predatory Strikes.
Someone on the official forums posted that (I assume talented) Ravage was changed to only cost 40 energy (ie. same as talented Shred), which would most definitely make it a worthwhile contender. MMO-Champion's ability list still has it at 60 (ie. 50 talented), so I'm uncertain which of the two is the updated, correct version. 40 energy would make it possible to Ravage three times after a Feral Charge.

Ignorance can be solved with a book. Stupidity requires a shotgun and a shovel.

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Old 07/02/10, 3:56 PM   #50
• Melthu
Confused
 
Troll Druid
 
Alterac Mountains
As of this moment that is not true - Ravage still costs 60 energy base, 50 talented in the beta. However it does much more damage than Shred: 550% weapon damage + 1705 vs. 365% weapon damage + 1132 (at level 82, with all modifiers that affect Shred but not Ravage). Like I said before, it's much too early in the process to be thinking in terms of rotations, but Blizzard is certainly making an effort to make Ravage more attractive in some fashion.

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Old 07/03/10, 5:50 PM   #51
Vaccine
Mr. Sandman
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Is the buff conusmed when you use 1 ravage or can you cast it multiple times during the duration?

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Old 07/04/10, 1:32 AM   #52
Bonemage
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by Vaccine View Post
Is the buff conusmed when you use 1 ravage or can you cast it multiple times during the duration?
It's currently bugged, when you charge with the talents ravage vanishes from your cast bars until the buff is gone.

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Old 07/04/10, 10:18 AM   #53
Grend
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Bonemage View Post
It's currently bugged, when you charge with the talents ravage vanishes from your cast bars until the buff is gone.
Does it disappear from the spell book as well?

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Old 07/05/10, 4:30 AM   #54
nightcrowler
Don Flamenco
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem (EU)
I've just seen that Blizzard has removed all the attack power from leather. They have also removed Feral Attack power (now we will use weapon damage). My questions are:
- Are they going to change RIP/Rake/FB scaling (now they scale with AP).
- What about bear? Are they going to give us an agility to AP conversion also for bear? Otherwise I see huge damage scaling problems.

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Old 07/05/10, 6:23 AM   #55
Daefecator
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Ревущий фьорд (EU)
Originally Posted by nightcrowler View Post
I've just seen that Blizzard has removed all the attack power from leather. They have also removed Feral Attack power (now we will use weapon damage). My questions are:
- Are they going to change RIP/Rake/FB scaling (now they scale with AP).
- What about bear? Are they going to give us an agility to AP conversion also for bear? Otherwise I see huge damage scaling problems.
Yes, the new tooltip for Bear Form (they seem to remove gimmick Dire Bear Form and replace it with actual Savage Defense mechanic available at level 40) also states 'Causes agility to increase attack power'.

Source - MMO-Champion.

Other abilities' coefficients can also be previewed on that page.

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Old 07/05/10, 7:02 AM   #56
Duilliath
Great Tiger
 
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Duilliath
Night Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Also note that the mana cost has been dropped to 5% of base mana. If you were worrying about the mana cost reducing talents being scrapped, this should make you feel a bit better again.

Ignorance can be solved with a book. Stupidity requires a shotgun and a shovel.

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Old 07/05/10, 8:29 AM   #57
Dastey
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Neptulon (EU)
Old Savage Defense: Absorbs 25% of your attack power
New: Provides a damage absorption shield that absorbs a percentage of incoming attacks (32% at 51 points)

I guess the way it should be understood is that if a boss hits me for 100k I will absorb 32% where before it was probably what? 2,5k at 10k AP?

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Old 07/05/10, 8:43 AM   #58
Moonpie
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Bloodhoof (EU)
It's changed to fit with the new block mechanics that Pallys and Warriors also recieve that will mitigate a set percentage of incomming damage. This is to make the tanking classes view block as a significant mitigation tool rather than something that trivialised fast low damage mobs (such as heroic packs or the adds on AN25HM) but was useless against slow larger hits (That most bosses use). In the context of raid bosses its a nice survivability boost for the three tanking classes that use block.

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Old 07/05/10, 10:26 AM   #59
Odas
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eonar
Originally Posted by Dastey View Post
Old Savage Defense: Absorbs 25% of your attack power
New: Provides a damage absorption shield that absorbs a percentage of incoming attacks (32% at 51 points)

I guess the way it should be understood is that if a boss hits me for 100k I will absorb 32% where before it was probably what? 2,5k at 10k AP?
I was under the impression that the Savage Defense mastery was going to be the one that scales with our mastery stat instead of talent points. Does anyone know if this is implemented yet, and if so what benefits mastery gives?

Also, I saw some conflicting information in "The Tank Thread" on the Cataclysm forums:
Savage Defense is now a 50% chance on Critical Strike to put up a shield worth 75% of our total Attack Power.
I really hope that this is false. Is anyone able to confirm?

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Old 07/05/10, 11:46 AM   #60
Daefecator
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Ревущий фьорд (EU)
Originally Posted by Dastey View Post
Old Savage Defense: Absorbs 25% of your attack power
New: Provides a damage absorption shield that absorbs a percentage of incoming attacks (32% at 51 points)

I guess the way it should be understood is that if a boss hits me for 100k I will absorb 32% where before it was probably what? 2,5k at 10k AP?
As far as I can see from early abilities description, Savage Defense is now 50% chance to proc after our crit to absorb for our AP * 0.75. Mastery bonus increases absorb value by 32% up to our AP * 0.75 * (1 + 0.32) = AP * 1.

So if, for example, you have 50% crit and 10k AP, then new Savage Defense will give you 25% chance on attack to proc absorb shield for up to 10k damage. Savage Defense that we have now gives 50% chance to proc 2.5k absorb shield.

As it stands now, Savage Defense grants low absorb barriers with good uptime. This gives us very good survivability versus light hitting targets, like trash, when soloing old world dungeons etc. Cataclysm significantly buffs absorb value, making it really matter for hard hitting bosses, but also lowers its overall uptime, leaving us more vulnerable to said trash. I see this reflects Blizzard stance on bringing back CC to raids really well.

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