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Old 07/27/10, 3:10 PM   #106
Thessaly
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kargath
I reset my talents and took off all gear. I tried refreshing immediately after the 2nd tick and as quickly before the third tick as I could with the default ui, and consistently got 4 more ticks. Tried about 10-12 each way and the result was the same every time.

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Old 07/29/10, 8:45 PM   #107
Docrev
Piston Honda
 
Undead Rogue
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Hezkezl View Post
Currently on the beta, it gives 20 energy, and then you gain another 60 energy. 20 extra energy for having Primal Madness, and the 60 that you get from having talented into KOTJ. So your energy is basically filled to full when you use Tiger's Fury. I'm assuming that the 20 energy "gained" from Primal Madness is bugged, due to it being beta and all. But if its supposed to 'give' an additional 20 energy, it's definately worded weirdly.
GC just confirmed that it's working as intended: MMO-Champion BlueTracker | Primal Madness has very limited use for Cats

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Old 07/30/10, 1:52 AM   #108
xanthic42
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Moon Guard
In its current state the tree is at least fully speccable for feral dps, if not much in the way of choices. Additionally due to the lack of "must have" talents, a capable hybrid dps/bear build is possible.

This is the current base spec I have come up with, grabbing everything that applies to cats WoW Talent Calculator - Sigrie with 3 points unspent. I will probably spend the 3 leftover points in Thick Hide or Perseverance.

Feral:

Tier 1
2/2 Feral Swiftness - 30% move speed + 4% dodge
3/3 Heart of the Wild - 10% ap as cat
0/2 Predatory Strikes - PvP talent, 50/100% chance to crit on ravage for targets > 90% + 10/20% per combo point chance to make next nature spell instant.

Tier 2
3/3 Fury Swipes - 12% chance for extra auto attack, 6 second cd.
2/2 Primal Fury - Extra combo point on critical hits.
2/2 Feral Aggression - 10% Ferocious Bite damage and Fairy Fire (Feral) applies 3 stacks instead of 1.
0/2 infected Wounds - Bear/PvP talent, 25/50% snare + 10/20% melee dehaste.

Tier 3
3/3 King of the Jungle - 60 energy from Tiger's Fury
1/1 Feral Charge - Movement Ability
0/2 Improved Feral Charge - Bear/PvP ability, Allows usage of ravage outside of stealth for 3/6 seconds
0/3 Thick Hide - Bear/PvP talent, 4/7/10% more armor from Cloth/Leather, 11/22/33% more armor from cloth/leather in bear form, 2/4/6% reduced chance to be critical hit by melee.

Tier 4
1/1 Leader of the Pack - 5% raid crit + 8% hp/mana(self) heal with a 6s cd.
2/2 Brutal Impact - Makes Skull Bash a 10 second interrupt and Skull Bash increases targets mana cost by 30%.
2/2 Nurturing Instinct - 20% heals taken.

Tier 5
2/2 Primal Madness - 20 more energy from Tiger's Fury, 80 total. 20 energy from Berserk. Increases energy cap by 20 for the duration too.
1/1 Survival Instincts - +30% hp for 20 seconds on 3m cd.
2/2 Endless Carnage - +6 seconds on rake and savage roar.
0/2 Natural Reaction - Bear talent. Reduce damage taken in bear by 6/12%, Increase bear dodge by 3/6%, each dodge as bear generates 1/3 rage.

Tier 6
2/2 Nom Nom Nom - Ferocious Bite on targets below 25% refreshes rip to full duration.
3/3 Rend and Tear - Increase Shred damage by 20% on bleeding targets, Ferocious Bite has +25% crit chance on bleeding targets.
0/1 Pulverize - Bear ability

Tier 7
1/1 Berserk - 50% energy cost for abilities for 15 seconds, 3 minute cd.

Restoration

Tier 1
2/2 Blessing of the Grove - 4% more Shred damage.
3/3 Natural Shapeshifter - 30% cheaper shapeshifts.
0/3 Furor - 20/40/60 energy kept shifting into cat form.

Tier 2
1/1 Master Shapeshifter - 2% crit as cat
0/3 Perseverance - 2/4/6% less spell damage taken.


You could argue that Feral Charge, Nurturing Instinct, Brutal Impact and Survival Instincts are all optional talents as well, allowing you to create a hybrid spec that loses nothing important, but can do the full duties of a bear or cat.

Something like WoW Talent Calculator - Sigrie would allow you to be a nearly fully capable bear or cat without respeccing. And if the mentioned changes to glyphs actually happen(You learn the glyph once and then can select which glyph you want from a drop down) then you would only have to worry about shifting forms in combat.

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Old 07/30/10, 2:37 AM   #109
avambo
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Although we know that druid talents are far from finished I also thought about a hybrid feral spec (for leveling at least). I don't think though that leaving out feral charge and perseverance will do you much good. Also the cd reduction of scull bash will be sort of necessary for at least some fights. I suppose the 6% reduced spell damage have to be picked up by a bear and feral charge I find useful much too often in various fights. I did not find any raiding compatible hybrid spec in the current talent trees and I doubt they will give us this possibility.

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Old 07/30/10, 4:32 AM   #110
xanthic42
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Moon Guard
A raiding compatible spec would come from skipping the talents that overlap with other people in your raid. Those being:

Infected Wounds - Melee dehaste
Brutal Impact (2 interrupts in bear, 1 in cat)
Leader of the Pack - raid crit, although the self heal is nice so I would still include it anyways.

And you could possibly skip either of the following talents since the DPS/survival boost is minimal.

Primal Madness
Nurturing Instinct - I really like this survival talent as a dps though.


Using something like WoW Talent Calculator - Sigrie as a base, you could either pick up the spell resist, interrupt, more cat damage(primal madness), or the melee dehaste and still be capable.


But -- I agree this tree feels unfinished, and I hope more is added to it so that you can't make a hybrid spec that doesn't "have to" give up anything good.

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Old 07/30/10, 10:54 AM   #111
kalbear
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
For bear or cat, there's so little in the resto tree that feels particularly important that there's no real reason to get those talents. Perseverance is about it, and it's not a required talent for bears. You lose 4% more shred damage and 2% more crit as a cat, but that's not that big a deal either.

The feral tree is only 44 points - and 2 of those are Predatory Strikes. You can take every mandatory cat and bear talent and still have points left over for things like lotp, IW, BI and even a point for NI. You won't be optimal for either spec, but it won't be a huge loss.

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Old 07/30/10, 11:37 AM   #112
Talep
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Medivh (EU)
As a bear, I can't see how Perseverance isn't required in a tank template, I don't think thread is going to be a real issue for tanking, and druids always complained about their weak magical resistance, so to my mind, it is really important to have Perseverance when you're tanking

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Old 07/30/10, 11:50 AM   #113
Duilliath
Great Tiger
 
Duilliath's Avatar
 
Duilliath
Night Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
As it stands though, I don't see Master Shapeshifter being worthwhile. Feral forms have been dropped to 5% base mana, so they're essentially 'free'. Taking a 2% increase for 4 talent points is a terrible trade off.

Ignorance can be solved with a book. Stupidity requires a shotgun and a shovel.

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Old 07/30/10, 2:00 PM   #114
kalbear
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
As a bear, I can't see how Perseverance isn't required in a tank template, I don't think thread is going to be a real issue for tanking, and druids always complained about their weak magical resistance, so to my mind, it is really important to have Perseverance when you're tanking
I agree - for a MT build or a build that you know is going to be taking significant magical damage, it would not be optimal. Though druids complained way too much about taking magical damage compared to other tanks; they had some of the best mitigation for magic available to them.

However, if you want a build that can do both very good cat DPS and very good bear tanking without missing significantly large abilities or debuffs, 0/41/0 is perfectly fine. It would be great for an offtank role that only requires one spec, for example. And honestly, there needs to be a bigger grab for ferals in the other trees; 4% shred damage is not that significant, and 6% spell damage reduction is good but not crucial. There's nothing like OoC any more.

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Old 07/31/10, 6:23 AM   #115
Schlurcher
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius (EU)
Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
As it stands though, I don't see Master Shapeshifter being worthwhile. Feral forms have been dropped to 5% base mana, so they're essentially 'free'. Taking a 2% increase for 4 talent points is a terrible trade off.
For a cat maybe, as a bear you have to dump 5 points into Resto Tier 1 anyway to get access Perserverance.

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Old 07/31/10, 8:51 AM   #116
swills
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Shadowsong (EU)
I would ignore Tier 1 of the resto tree for now anwyay, it simply has to change. Resto Druids have to chose between Furor which does absolutely nothing, and Natural Shapeshifter which also does nothing as we are healing in caster form now (yes it leads to Master Shapeshifter, but I don't think you are meant to spend 3 talent points that do nothing regardless). That is one level of the talent trees that has to change at some point.

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Old 08/01/10, 3:08 AM   #117
nightcrowler
Don Flamenco
 
nightcrowler's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem (EU)
An hybrid build is possible but not in a min-max environment. Actually at 85 I can take all cat talents and all bear talents (and that's good in my opinion) but not "all the talent". the difference between the 2 spec are:

Bear:

Infected wounds 2/2
Tick Hide 3/3
Natural reaction 2/2
Pulverize 1/1
Perseverance 3/3

Cat:

Predatory Strike 2/2
King of the Jungle 3/3
Nom Nom Nom 2/2
Blessing of the Groove 2/2
Master shapeshifter 1/1

with one point left.

So basically if you really want to min-max dps and take "mandatory" utility talents (do you really want to have a spec without survival instinct or LoP or Imp Feral Charge?) you have 10 points of difference. It seems fine to me, if you want an hybrid build you can but at the expense of ALL utilities and a few dps:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

but it's a build with wich I'll not play.

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Old 08/01/10, 1:40 PM   #118
Talisia
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Draenor (EU)
I could see myself rolling in raids with this spec for a more hybrid oriented role whilest having a resto offspec : Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I would lose predatory strikes/imp feral charge for dps, master shapeshifter isn't worth its 4 points either way in my opinion. Nurturing instinct will be missed for any fight which'd require heavy raidhealing but i guess our healers will just have to cope with that.

I would lose 1 point perseverance & infected wounds as a tank, in a raidenviroment, it shouldn't be too big of a problem to get someone else to keep up the ATKspeed effect anyhow.

And if spelldamage would be really limited, drop perseverance & furor for imp charge & infected wounds =)

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Old 08/05/10, 7:22 AM   #119
Glandur
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Wildhammer (EU)
MMO-champion reports changes in energy/rage costs of feral skills - and a 6 second cooldown on bear swipe.
The bear swipe cooldown change is interesting (provided it stays in) - and adds some variation to the bear AE rotation after the intial Thrash->Swipe->Demo Roar.

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Old 08/05/10, 8:49 AM   #120
Moonpie
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Bloodhoof (EU)
It may well be to bring it in line with Thunderclap - Trash, Maul and Swipe for us where Warriors have Shockwave, Cleave and Thunderclap which now has a talented DoT component to homogenise Bears and Warriors. Interestingly Consecration recieved a 'nerf' for want of a better term in that it's cooldown has been bumped up to 30 seconds which brings it inline with the other fire and forget aoe tanking ability - Death and Decay. The likelihood is that this homogenisation is just to avoid one single tank dominating aoe encounters as Pally tanks did in Hyjal for example or simply so bears use more than just monotonous swipe spamming in pve.

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