[WOTLK 4.0] Restoration Discussion - Page 41

Kermit · 10/14/10, 7:26 AM

The concept of no fixed caps makes me a bit confused over stat allocation. Since we have no good "Druid in 4.0.1 for dummies" thread yet, and I didn't find it specified here, I'll just go ahead and ask:

How do we allocate our stats now? With no caps, an order like Haste>Mastery>Crit>Spirit really means "get as much haste as you possibly can, and the other stats only if you really have to". Should we focus solely on haste, or is the best thing to balance your stats? Since we seem to have basically unlimited mana now, should we reforge all spirit to haste as well? Or, get spirit/haste gear and reforge spirit to mastery? And should we use crit gear only if we don't have access to a haste item for that specific slot, or is there some "minimum recommended" crit to reach before focusing on haste/mastery only?

Manny · 10/14/10, 7:29 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Before this patch, you used Rejuv, Swiftmend, and WG.

Now you use at the very least Rejuv, Swiftmend, WG, LB, Tree Form, and HT/RG will see more use than they did before. And that's even before level 85 makes mana relevant and drives you to start including Nourish.

I'm not sure if it's an ui issue, but no matter who I'm targetting or what's going on LB only seems to hit me. I tried lbing multiple people over a few heroics to only get the same result every time.

I haven't needed to pop tree as a cd yet to handle a situation, so I don't use that (but I will). I've really only been using rejuv, wg, SM, and regrowth as a quick spot heal substitute from the cast time increase of nourish.

HT heals for A LOT now, but in wotlk content so far I haven't needed to throw any 20k heals out to save people.

Nihlo · 10/14/10, 8:26 AM

Originally Posted by Kermit

The concept of no fixed caps makes me a bit confused over stat allocation. Since we have no good "Druid in 4.0.1 for dummies" thread yet, and I didn't find it specified here

4.0.1 for dummies could be something like:

Way 1

- Use a built & glyphes like this

- Get rid off Spirit by reforging:

  if there is crit on the item: spirit  -> haste
  if there is haste on the item: spirit -> crit

- Try to reach the "reju 7 ticks haste cap" by using int & haste gems until 1015 haste-rating

- Use a meta with int or +crit heal

- Use crit & sp enchants for Head and Shoulder (I use even Icewalker on Boots)

- Only use Leatheritems and try to get some with crit & haste 



Healing in PvE:

- Keep 3x lb on the Tank

- Use WG & SM on Cooldown (SM in camps)

- Don't spam Reju but cover everyone who gets dmg

- Use Regro as a flash-heal 


If things get critical:

- Use ToL

- Spam Lb on everyone who gets dmg

- Use OoC-Procs for instant Regros

- Still use WG & SM on Cooldown

Way 2

- Use a built like this

- Get rid off Spirit by reforging:

  if there is crit on the item: spirit  -> haste
  if there is haste on the item: spirit -> mastery

- reach the "reju 7 ticks haste cap" by using int & haste gems until 1015 haste-rating

- you probably need a mana-meta



Healing in PvE:

- use every gcd for hots to benefit from mastery

- no nourish, no ht, no real tank healing besides the hots

Mews · 10/14/10, 8:37 AM

It's just the WotLK raid damage model; You don't have time to cast HT because people are either dead or at 95%+ life. Nourish is the same because mana regen is still very high. I could take them off my bars.

I've been using almost SM, Rejuv, LB and Regrowth. WG in certain situations but SM was my go to AoE heal with Efflorescence.

Kluian · 10/14/10, 8:49 AM

The ability queue system is rather annoying in it's current live form since you can't turn it off. For example, if you're spamming rejuv during a GCD and then try to cast something else it won't allow it.

Kermit · 10/14/10, 8:53 AM

Originally Posted by Nihlo

4.0.1 for dummies could be something like:

- Get rid off Spirit by reforging:

if there is haste on the item: spirit -> crit

Thanx for the clarifications. Just a question about the above statement - isn't mastery considered better than crit? If so, shouldn't the spirit always be reforged to mastery instead of crit (assuming we reached 1015 haste and don't need more of that)? Also there are some crit/haste leather items (which is very usable now considering our imba regen) - should we reforge the crit to mastery on those, or leave as-is?

Kluian · 10/14/10, 8:56 AM

Mastery most likely isn't better than crit in the current form because the only benefit you will see from it in the current style of healing is on tanks.

Mastery should be better than crit at 85, but we'll have to see how raids go.

If you have any current crt/haste leather gear or off items (neck, ring, cloak, etc). I would just leave them as is.

EnderAsha · 10/14/10, 9:18 AM

Granted I currently have furor in my spec, mana seemed to be a non issue though I haven't gotten a chance to fight heroic LK this week. The general consensus then is to ditch all the spirit we can on gear through refitting into crit? Last night I had 34% crit shown on my paper doll, through refitting I can get that up to 40% or so if my math was right, that seems to be the right call I think.

Silkworm · 10/14/10, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by Kluian

Mastery most likely isn't better than crit in the current form because the only benefit you will see from it in the current style of healing is on tanks.

This is not necessarily the case. If you have made the reju heavy build and skipped HT/Nourish talents all together, you are practically spamming WG, Reju,Swfitmend+Effloresence(yet another hot) + situationally regrowth ticks and throw in a few LB for Replenish. All in all hots,hots and more hots. Usually any given person that you are healing will have at least one of these on. Your basic mastery bonus gives you 8 points=%10 more healing on anyone with any of your hots. Since I decided to play the reju style I have reforged every spirit to mastery (after reaching 1015 haste) and ended up having +%8 on mastery.

i.e.
Lb ticks for 426
Reju ticks for 3100+(instead of regular 2620 or 2890 with only %10 mastery)
Numbers are what I remember from testing yesterday night. Not very accurate but pretty sure similar to these numbers.

The question is in any given raid heal situation, which is more reliable. The possibility that the person you are healing has already any of your hot on them (which you will be spamming like there is no tomorrow or until you run out of mana) or lets say %8 more crit?
Well I have decided to go with mastery. But the point is mastery is not ONLY for tank healing.

Of course this reforging dropped me down to 750 spirit and I don't know if it is enough mana for me. We will see. And if not I still have Spark of Life and as far as I see its still one of the best regen trinkets around+ you can trade the 40 spirit to anything you want i.e. 40 intellect,40 haste or 40 mastery. For losing a spellpower trinket with around 150-175 intellect(and equal spell power) you gain a lot of mana regen(indirectly and directly) and partial spellpower bonus. Before patch this was considered a 250 mp/5 trinket. Is it still that good or with increased mana figures, the 42 mana cost decrease is not that significant? Chain casting 1 GCD spells, I believe this is still the ultimate mana regen trinket.

Fallenangel · 10/14/10, 9:49 AM

Refreshing rejuv before the last tick will NOT clip it and will give you the benefit of the mastery. Therefore mastery is quite easily applicable to non-tank targets and certainly seems more potent than crit.

Kermit · 10/14/10, 9:50 AM

Originally Posted by EnderAsha

Granted I currently have furor in my spec, mana seemed to be a non issue though I haven't gotten a chance to fight heroic LK this week. The general consensus then is to ditch all the spirit we can on gear through refitting into crit? Last night I had 34% crit shown on my paper doll, through refitting I can get that up to 40% or so if my math was right, that seems to be the right call I think.

I just logged to try this. First of all, I got to 1016 haste which equals 30.99% haste. I tried this with a boomkin, and got 7 ticks on my rejuv if you are counting the first initial tick - otherwise 6 ticks (I guess it's initial tick + 6 that is the 1015 limit?).

Also, I reforged spirit into crit, resulting in 550 mp5 in combat vs 730 before, but upping my crit to 35% (all unbuffed). I will give this a try through a ICC25 hc run (including some LK tries) and report back on mana usage asap.

shine · 10/14/10, 10:11 AM

Also! If you're dumping spirit, it's worthwhile to drop your Idol of the Black Willow and pick up Idol of the Lunar Eclipse!

slourette · 10/14/10, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Kermit

I just logged to try this. First of all, I got to 1016 haste which equals 30.99% haste. Are we sure about the 1015 limit or do I need to get to/over 31% for the 7:th tick? I will try to test this with a fellow boomkin.

Also, I reforged spirit into crit, resulting in 550 mp5 in combat vs 730 before, but upping my crit to 35% (all unbuffed). I will give this a try through a ICC25 hc run (including some LK tries) and report back on mana usage asap.

There is nothing special about 31% percent. The magic number is 37.5000000000% haste without the 5 percent buff. To get the haste percentage with the 5% buff you take 1.375 and divide it by 1.05, and subtract off the 1

1.375/1.05 - 1 = 30.95238095%, and the lowest amount of haste rating you need to larger than this is 1015 at approximately 30.954% haste.

I think I'm going to try to pick up some non-tier haste pieces to replace my tier on fights where I don't have the 5% buff to get the missing 215 haste, though that may be too much for just 2 pieces of gear. The 20% bonus from a 6th tick is much better than 10% extra rejuvs. As a side note, I don't think our set bonus can proc from the initial tick of rejuv, though I'm not sure, since I only tested for a few minutes.

1%crit = 1 Mastery in terms of itemization costs, but 1% crit increases healing by about 0.5%, while 1 Mastery increases healing by 1.25%, so the break even point is when you benefit from mastery 0.5/1.25 = 40% of the time.

With regards to mastery versus crit. I would imagine that crit is a clear winner in 25 man raiding, unless you are only responsible for a few targets. In 10 man raiding, I think that mastery will probably pull ahead. It is very possible to have rejuvs on the entire raid, so at the very least you will get the benefits from mastery every time you wild growth. Swiftmend and stacked LB also benefit 100% from mastery. Since tank healing got nerfed from every class, I'm expecting that I will be required to help out my pally healer on the tanks more than usual. I think that if you refresh a hot that benefited from mastery, it keeps the mastery bonus.

Kluian · 10/14/10, 11:02 AM

I'm not sure people were aware, but Wild Growth can no longer choose to heal pets because it is considered a "buff". This has a benefit of raiding where you want it to be used on players. Could be bad for PvP because all the available targets may not be benefit from it.

I'm not sure if WG works if you choose the pet to place it on as your primary target.

Originally Posted by Fallenangel

Refreshing rejuv before the last tick will NOT clip it and will give you the benefit of the mastery. Therefore mastery is quite easily applicable to non-tank targets and certainly seems more potent than crit.

Perhaps for 10 mans, but not really in 25 man raiding unless you're only going to heal the same ~12 people with rejuv.

Kluian · 10/14/10, 11:04 AM

*edit*