[WOTLK 4.0] Restoration Discussion - Page 53

• Hamlet · 10/26/10, 12:40 AM

I'd say that if you have to pick (i.e. not well enough geared to get both), you'd go for the 1016 haste. The extra Rejuv tick is a 20% throughput increase, while the set bonus is around 11% with only 5 ticks to proc from. And the extra tick is a more consistent gain on your intended targets (not to mention the haste benefit to other spells).

The real question is--at what point do you gem fully for haste to be able to get both? It's probably quite early if you use Rejuv a lot, since the Int you give up is still unlikely to amount to more than a 10% throughput loss (you probably have well over 3000 spellpower).

aaberd · 10/26/10, 4:49 AM

Have a question about the haste rating required to get the 6 ticks off a rejuv. I have been looking around a lot of other forums and site and everyone seems to say that 1016 haste rating is needed to get the 6th tick of rejuv (which occurs at 37.5%). Only question I have is how does 1016 equate to 37.5% haste rating? 1016 haste = 30.985% haste. This rating would still be short of the mark by about ~1.5% given the 5% raid buff. Is there a buff i am missing or am I not calculating the haste rating correctly?

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edit: figured out that the 5% raid buff actually increases current haste by 5% then adds.

hleusink · 10/26/10, 9:02 AM

deleted to prevent misunderstandings - wrong train of thought

Pyrates · 10/26/10, 9:05 AM

There are no procs within the internal cooldown. You only get a chance to proc revitalize when the 6 seconds are over.

Benassi · 10/26/10, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

With the heavy Rejuv spam I'm doing, the 3rd point of Revitalize is worth almost nothing because the proc time is already so low. I don't think I have a good log at the moment because the only fight I've healed was Halion, but if Skada was accurate I got around 850 MP5 with a mean proc time of under 8 seconds.

Another post in this thread says differently. I have my points in 3/3 Revitalize because I haven't found anything better to put it in that I'll actually use. Hamlet calculated the average proc time with 2/3 as 8 sec. With 3/3, depending on how much you use rejuvenation.. which is up to you.. could be good or bad. I imagine that tank healing wouldn't benefit much from the third point because they are focusing on single targets rather than blanketing the raid with HoTs and therefore the talent wouldn't proc to have an optimal mana regen.

• RobotChicken · 10/26/10, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Benassi

Another post in this thread says differently. I have my points in 3/3 Revitalize because I haven't found anything better to put it in that I'll actually use. Hamlet calculated the average proc time with 2/3 as 8 sec. With 3/3, depending on how much you use rejuvenation.. which is up to you.. could be good or bad. I imagine that tank healing wouldn't benefit much from the third point because they are focusing on single targets rather than blanketing the raid with HoTs and therefore the talent wouldn't proc to have an optimal mana regen.

Actually, it would be more beneficial to have the 3rd point if you are tank healing. The reason we can safely only take 1 or 2 is that there's so many Rejuvenations on the raid at once, and it's very likely to proc after the ICD is up - not so much on a tank.

zydd · 10/26/10, 1:57 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

I'd say that if you have to pick (i.e. not well enough geared to get both), you'd go for the 1016 haste. The extra Rejuv tick is a 20% throughput increase, while the set bonus is around 11% with only 5 ticks to proc from. And the extra tick is a more consistent gain on your intended targets (not to mention the haste benefit to other spells).

The real question is--at what point do you gem fully for haste to be able to get both? It's probably quite early if you use Rejuv a lot, since the Int you give up is still unlikely to amount to more than a 10% throughput loss (you probably have well over 3000 spellpower).

So in other words it doesn't make sense to break 4t10 bonus upgrading to 277 off pieces to reach the cap with standard gemming as the bonus is worth a lot more than Int you lose when regemming the 264 pieces to haste?

Benassi · 10/26/10, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by RobotChicken

The reason we can safely only take 1 or 2 is that there's so many Rejuvenations on the raid at once, and it's very likely to proc after the ICD is up - not so much on a tank.

I'm sorry to say this, but I didn't understand your reason. Could you clarify?

Halycon · 10/26/10, 2:45 PM

Originally Posted by Benassi

I'm sorry to say this, but I didn't understand your reason. Could you clarify?

the thing is, that you have a pretty better proc chance with more hots (raidheal) than with fewer hots (tankheal). so with 3/3 you´re gonna waste that point, regardless if you need it or not. it´s as simple as can be.

Erdluf · 10/26/10, 3:38 PM

For a more mathematical answer:

On average it takes roughly 12/(talent points) HoT ticks after the CD before you get a Revitalize proc.

If my rotation is something like Lb + Rj*8 then I have about six ticks every second, and I should see Revitalize in 6+2s with one point of Revitalize or 6+0.7s with three points of Revitalize. The last two Revitalize points improved Revitalize MP5 by a total of 20%.

If I am only healing one tank (and I maintain both Lb and Rj on it) then I see about two ticks every second. One point of Revitalize gives me a proc every 6+6s, while three points improves that to 6+2s. That is a 50% improvement in Revitalize MP5 for two talent points.

• RobotChicken · 10/26/10, 7:33 PM

I was spamming Swiftmend (Efflorescence) on myself to see if they had fixed projected textures and I noticed something odd - apparently Efflorescence can crit. I have never seen it crit before, but it definitely did so multiple times, I verified this with my combat log. It probably should given that it's not based on a crit anymore, but it seems to be a pretty low chance, much lower than the ~36% I have now. Has anybody else observed this behavior? It definitely wasn't happening yesterday, or at least I didn't notice it and WoL doesn't record it.

If it IS intended to crit now, why is the chance so low, what is it based on, what is the chance, etc? I would test/verify this myself, but my guild is not raiding tonight and nobody seems to be doing any other raids right now.

Greentouch · 10/27/10, 2:40 AM

I just tested 20 effloresence's in a row, and none of them crit. If SM crits, eff is 50% larger, but that isn't what it sounded like you meant. Do you mean on Beta? If so its the wrong forum!

• RobotChicken · 10/27/10, 11:06 AM

No, this is on Live. I have not tested it on Beta. Unless it is a strange combat log error, Efflorescence is critting now. Not very often at all, though, so you would have to probably test more Efflors than that. Try and test it on a large group of people. The crit chance seems to be something ridiculous like 1% or possibly much lower.

Rogirek · 10/27/10, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by RobotChicken

No, this is on Live. I have not tested it on Beta. Unless it is a strange combat log error, Efflorescence is critting now. Not very often at all, though, so you would have to probably test more Efflors than that. Try and test it on a large group of people. The crit chance seems to be something ridiculous like 1% or possibly much lower.

Since it behaves like an independent unit, could it have its own crit rating (which starts at 0%), and gain crit from raid buffs?

EDIT: Or could the target potentially have a talent/cooldown/whatever which was increasing the healing they receive?

Khaldei · 10/27/10, 11:27 AM

I had a thought today that made getting to 1016 haste a bit easier. I found I only needed to gem/gear to 976 haste, then I use +40 haste food to push me over to 1016. I think this is only valid if you're gemming haste though. The tradeoff is basically 40 intellect regained through gemming back into intellect vs. 46 spell power from the food buff. With the +16% intellect you'll get from leather specialization, MoTW, and Heart of the Wild, you'll wind up with 46.4 intellect.

So the final tally will be 46 intellect vs. 46 spell power. That seems to be a no brainer. It more than makes up for missing out on the fish feast. You'll just have to cart around plenty of baked manta ray.

Again, I think this would only be valid if you're gemming straight haste and missing out on at least 40 intellect through gemming. Does this seem accurate?