Cataclysm Balance Theorycraft and Spreadsheet Thread - Page 10

Erdluf · 09/26/10, 4:32 PM

Right, first number is new. If the second one is there, it is the old one. Regrowth nerfed. Typhoon buffed.

aceofsween · 09/26/10, 4:34 PM

Was more talking about the double entries for several spells (Tranquility, Starfall, etc).

Mjoedgaard · 09/26/10, 4:49 PM

Originally Posted by aceofsween

Was more talking about the double entries for several spells (Tranquility, Starfall, etc).

The first one is the direct dmg/heal and the other is dot/hot part

aceofsween · 09/26/10, 5:28 PM

Starfall doesn't have a two components and neither does Tranquility. Unless I'm mistaken, Lifebloom doesn't either....

Mjoedgaard · 09/26/10, 5:37 PM

Originally Posted by aceofsween

Starfall doesn't have a two components and neither does Tranquility. Unless I'm mistaken, Lifebloom doesn't either....

starfall got direct hit and aoe. tranquility got a direct heal and then a stacking heal. Lifebloom, got the hot part and the bloom effect.

aceofsween · 09/26/10, 9:41 PM

I was under the impression that Starfall's AoE was removed, and that Tranquility just a pulsing channeled spell (like Hurricane).

Starfox · 09/26/10, 10:04 PM

Starfalls additional aoe is removed on beta, but tranquility got a stacking hot added to it

• Hamlet · 09/26/10, 10:53 PM

A bunch of spells with nontrivial effects have multiple spell entries (also, lots of things not in the current build still sit in the spell table). Usually it's not hard to figure out what's what.

One oddball thing I noticed when I did some Resto testing a few days ago is that the LB bloom was using the low coefficient--someone can see if that's changed.

Arythorn · 09/26/10, 11:21 PM

Now that Sunfire is working, I messed around a bit with Solar Insect Swarm + Sunfire Spam. At lvl 80 in iLVL 277 gear, a fully managed rotation is netting me 15+k sustained and a Lunar Shower Sunfire spam / Insect Swarm rotation sticking in Solar is netting me only 11.6k sustained. So Lunar shower, on the move spam dps is ~75% of a stand-and-turret rotation. Unless things change drastically in the lvl 85 versions, I don't see this as broken atm.

Hidden · 09/27/10, 1:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mews

It's more than likely that Lunar show will include Sunfire considering it's a prerequisite for Lunar shower.

It's just a number adjust or moving more damage to the DoT portion.

On a side note; it's gonna get annoying that we're gonna have three spells that could be shortened to "SF"; Starfire, Starfall and Sunfire. S'pose it's not as bad as the amount of SS' in the game.

That's not the point. I was always assuming it would include both Moonfire and Sunfire. On average you're still only in Eclipse ~50% of the time in the current build, thus your damage while moving heavily depends on where your Eclipse bar is at right now. Since you can no longer lengthen your Eclipse, this is purely random and not affected by any player skill at all.

At 85 I've noticed the following:
Eclipse Sunfire + IS does substantially less DPS than a standard rotation (~30%).
However the big gain is mana efficiency since using a standard rotation I seem to OOM quite fast while Lunar Shower reduces your mana usage to a minimum.

Arythorn · 09/27/10, 1:31 AM

On another topic, in my latest logs, I'm moving between Eclipses fairly quickly and am able to keep Nature's Torment at around 57% uptime as a result. I know we all, myself included, have been wishing for a return of "smart" Starsurge but it occurs to me that, with the addition of Nature's Torment mechanic, we may not really want an extended Eclipse cycle.

Between more frequent Euphoria procs and more Nature's Torment uptime, seems like"dumb" Starsurge moving us between cycles more quickly has some fairly strong benefits that are lost vs. "smart" Starsurge proc letting us get in 1 or 2 additional Eclipse casts per cycle. Also, I think if Starsurge is acting "smart" we are likely not to use it immediately on cooldown but rather delay it at times to ensure it's up during Eclipse which would be a loss of Starsurge direct dps. On the flip side, some lucky timing and frequency of Shooting Stars procs and you could have some really nice Eclipse uptime. This is definitely one for the spreadsheet but it may be a good thing to let Starsurge stay "dumb".

Erdluf · 09/27/10, 10:03 AM

I pulled coefficients from 13066 Beta. No Balance changes. Only changes from 13033:

Lifebloom is now two spells (Resto Discussion, one is the extra one that can be cast during ToL, ids are 33763 and 94447), both have the same pair of coefficients.

Razor Claws coefficient climbed to 3.125, from 2.5.

Mews · 09/28/10, 12:16 AM

Cruising through the other class forums I found this in the Warlock cata thread;

Originally Posted by Mystearica

Also it seems that a DoT's haste is updated in real time. Meaning a DoT already on target will tick faster when eradication procs w/o having to recast or refresh it. This however does not include SP or Damage bonus buffs such as Demon Soul, you have to recast/refresh your DoTs to benefit from them.

If someone could test this is with our DoTs and Haste buffs (Mostly Nature's Grace) on the Beta/PTR - Even just test with(out) moonkin aura haste. If this was the intended mechanic, then the implications on our DoTs would interesting, and would simplify the prospective rotation.

Starfox · 09/28/10, 1:44 AM

Originally Posted by Mews

Cruising through the other class forums I found this in the Warlock cata thread;

If someone could test this is with our DoTs and Haste buffs (Mostly Nature's Grace) on the Beta/PTR - Even just test with(out) moonkin aura haste. If this was the intended mechanic, then the implications on our DoTs would interesting, and would simplify the prospective rotation.

On beta it is the following:
Haste uses snapshots, updated when you interact with it. The tooltip just gives impression because tooltips use dynamic values (your current stats).
My stats:

MK	5%
Gear	4.71%
NG	15%
EngiGloves	6.58%

acitve	haste	expected ticks
MK+Gear	1.10%	9.785
MK+Gear+NG	1.26%	11.37
MK+Gloves+NG	1.27%	11.58

I did the following: Cast MF which would proc NG, fire up gloves and IS afterwards, if the ticktime gets updated dynamically there should be at most one tick difference. Only the first MF tick would not benefit from the whole haste.

You see a 10 tick MF, which is not reconcilable with the theory that tick times are updated with your dynamic hastelevels, even if you calculate the worst cast: 1 tick w/o haste, all following get gear+mk+ng
8*1.0658*1.05*1.15 +1 = 11.295628
MF should have at least 11 ticks if benefited from NG+gloves (even NG alone is enough 240 hasterating is nothing in cata)

aceofsween · 09/28/10, 10:24 AM

I'm honestly more concerned about whether or not DoTs will begin to react dynamically to damage buffs. Otherwise, we'd be in a situation where we can refresh our DoTs at the end of Eclipse and have the buff for that damage carry over. I can't imagine that they would have DoTs dynamically update for Haste and Crit, but not spellpower and %dmg buffs.