Are these versions out there and available to play with? The only copy I see is the 3.3.5 version.

Balance should be fine, but I would need feedback if the numbers are right.
All development happens in the cataclysm branch, but nate is already reviewing the code and I hope we will soon be able to merge into trunk and push a release.

Ok, updating sheet for L85 now (was trying to avoid branching). I think I got everything that should be changed from 80 to 85. Few things I still have left to do, aside from just confirming numbers:
--Proper OoC model
--Get numbers on FoN

Few really quick observations:
--Mastery seems very close to crit. Something to keep an eye on.
--You can actually get a lot of haste in T1 gear. The rotation can be brought down to ~45s, so your basic timing shouldn't change to much from now.
--Mana seems totally fine, unless I'm forgetting something.
--Chaotic meta is worth around 180 Int, so probably will be worth using.
--WM still way too good on a single target?

Ok, big update. Tecton had been working on an item-selection frontend that I mentioned a while ago. Here's the first attempt at putting everything together (attached). Basic notes:
--The new front page feeds stats into the old "main" page. I recolored every input that reads its values from the new page for now, so you know what not to overwrite. Everything else on the old main page works as before.
--As the sheet gets bigger, tables take a really long time to compute. I think it's best to have table computation off by default for now. Computing them manually is Cmd-= on Mac, F9 I think on Windows.
--Is preserving the ability to manually input stats important?
--The sheet has some VB macros for auto-loading items from wowhead. I can't run them due to Mac Excel. Not sure if they'll still be in the sheet after I save it. We might have to figure out some other solution there for adding items.
--Checking for Meta requirement seems not to work. Tecton, how is that supposed to work (filling in columns R and S)? Did that rely on another macro?
--I think gems are remaining equipped and giving stats even if you change to an item without the corresponding socket.

Tecton, a few other minor things I changed:
--Since the front page of the old sheet was meant to take stat values read from the character sheet, which included some % buffs (e.g. Heart of the Wild), I had to include those.
--Balance of Power only affects Spirit from gear. i.e. you have to subtract off your race's base Spirit before adding to hit rating.
--Reforging always rounds down, I think.


Anyway, tell me what you guys think.

For some reason the formulas had been removed from columns R:S when I ported it to your new version, I've re-added those and it should now be working properly. Gems no longer add stats when you change item and the socket no longer exists (they're also removed from metagem calcs and the total gems note at the top).

As far as the macros for adding items, I was stupidly unaware that Excel on Mac after 2007 didn't run them (and yeah, when you re-save the sheet, they get removed). That's going to be annoying later when the new armory is functioning fully for adding an import, does anyone have any solutions beyond maintaining two (four including resto) sheets?

[edit] I see people are still grabbing the version above, this is the most up to date below. [/edit]

Being able to manually add in stats would be handy to keep as it lets you toy around with theoretical situations and such.

I haven't played with the import stuff, but the gear page looks great.

Suggestions:

Gear page: add a an "extra stats" row, just below the totals. Allows people to throw in +30 Int , +17 Haste -56 Crit easily. For people without tables, it makes it easier to compute stat values, (+1 Int) without leaving "corrupt" values in the spreadsheet.

Character sheet page: Next to the "Armory values" column (C4:C10), allow room for "override" values that will be used if not zero. Makes it easier to evaluate another toon. An easy thing to do computationally. A real pain aesthetically, so maybe you'd want to put this somewhere else (basic calcs page, or gear page, or its own page).

Tecton, can you re-upload the last thing you added with the macros put back in? I'm pretty sure I can load/save while preserving the macros, I just can't run them. So they can be left in the sheet for others.

Also, can you add in Lightweave enchant and Leatherworking enchants (don't worry about what values to give Lightweave, that's what I want to work on)? If there are any trinkets or other things you skipped because they had procs that couldn't be handled properly, can you add those in too? Basically, you can see how I handled Power Torrent and Shard of Woe in the version I uploaded before--those should be good methods of handling any similar procs.

Note to self: fix Shard of Woe data table in next version (don't want to change anything locally now to avoid branching). Erdluf suggestions sound good for custom stats. Ace I think has some ideas for compactifying the front page aesthetically and cutting down on some of the blank space--I'll see when might be a good time to try working those in.

In general, how do people think professions should be handled? More dropdowns on the front page like race (which would then enable/disable profession-specific bonuses whereever they are found)? Or just have all profession benefits available and trust people to select only the ones corresponding to what they have?

Finally, there needs to be a way to select Engineering tinkers, which are now separate from enchantments. If I recall, the only slot having a tinker that matters for anything is Gloves (boot/belt/cloak tinkers have no stat or DPS bonuses now), so maybe just add another row to the Gloves box only. Tecton, if you could also throw that in and options for the relevant tinkers (Synapse Springs, Z50 Mana Gulper, Tazik Shocker), that would be cool.

(Also, if you don't have time to do those now, just tell me so I can work on other things myself. Basically using an informal checkout scheme so I don't have to merge things later).

Ok:

• Macros are back in, you can update items from MMO-C's database now. Procs and sets should be added by hand, though.
• Lightweave is in, I could only find one leatherworking enchant that was applicable (the intellect one). If I've missed any, let me know.
• Engineering tinkers can now be added to gloves, I just added a row as suggested. The only one with a value at the moment is Synapse Springs, I wasn't sure how you intended to handle the others.
• Shard of Woe is back on the gear list. I *think* I have all of the trinkets/etc now, but if anyone spots one of value that's missing, shout up.

As far as procs, I didn't go through the trinkets and add those in since I'm not sure what the ICD is now. I remember reading some rogues were seeing 75 second ICDs on their trinkets, didn't want to rush ahead with those before I was sure what the situation was. Do you want to average out haste/mastery/etc procs and on-use effects in the same way?

For trinkets like Gale of Shadows - Item - World of Warcraft I've just put their values in as if they were fully stacked.

I see you added a "Temp Int" column to the front page. Might be unnecessary, but won't worry about it for now, since there might be aesthetic cleanup of the front page later to get rid of some of the white space. Is a bit easier to work with for the moment.

As far as trinkets that merely give averaged-in procs that I'm going to treat as constant stats anyway, that depends on how I go about dealing with the flow of stats. Here's what happens right now (for Int, which is the most complex one):

1) Front page module adds up racial base stat and Int from gear.
2) Old Main page takes (1) and multiplies in permanent buffs that show up on the character sheet (e.g. HotW). This produces an Int value that was used as the input in the old sheet.
3) Basic calcs page takes (2) and divides out everything that was added in (2) to produce TrueInt, which is of course equal to (1). The 1 extra Int for data table computation also gets added here.
4) Basic calcs page takes (3) and adds in all buffs to produce final Int without procs (used only for mana pool size).
5) Basic calcs page takes (3), adds average value of any procs, and then adds all buffs to produce final average Int (used for all other purposes).

The back-and-forth in steps 1/2/3 appeared for now just because the old sheet started with 2, and I plugged Tecton's stuff into that. The issue surrounds the option for manual inputs though. Without manual inputs, steps 2 and 3 could be removed entirely.

If we want manual inputs, what value should they be?
--The same unbuffed character sheet values as before, in which case I basically maintain the current setup and add an option to override at step 2.
--Completely unbuffed values, in which case I can delete 2 and 3 again, but people using them have to have the wherewithal to use values without HotW and Astral Leather included.

Once we decide that, we decide where to include the mean value of procs (imagine a spellpower proc for now, since there's already a separate system for Int procs due to the mana issue).
--Just include them as a constant stat, so they get automatically included in step 1. Simplest, but manual inputs are more confusing now since they need to include the mean value of procs (basically the old system, which was not very user-friendly).
--Insert them in step 3, which is clearer, but takes new machinery.
--Add new TempSP/TempHaste/etc. stats, like the TempInt one, just for this purpose. Probably more added complexity than it's worth.


Trinkets with effects too complex to model simply as a mean stat value get the Shard of Woe treatment--dedicated T/F box in the main page, that reads from the item list.

That's what I figured. The real issue is how to deal with temporary buffs though. If the idea to continue displaying charsheet Int somewhere to serve as a check/override point, procs have to be added in after that, which means they can't be modeled as plain stats.

Another option is only have manual inputs in the form of +/- adjustments on the front page like Erdluf mentioned. The idea here is that only advanced users or theorycraft testers are likely to need to drop in manual stat values, and we have the wherewithal to just copy the sheet and manually overwrite stuff if they really need to (which is generally what I do even now if I'm checking spell coefficients or something).

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A few thoughts on actual rotation modeling. Since the DoT's are practically always refreshed in tandem in a stationary rotation, is it better to just use an NG uptime of 0.5 for each DoT? Alternatively, since IS should really always be refreshed first (note that MF is stronger than IS under both Eclipses), use 0 for IS and 1 for MF?

The only way to get both DoT's NGed at once is if you refresh both at the very end of one Eclipse to proc NG, then refresh both right before the next Eclipse while still under the prior NG. This clips not only the DoT's but the NG as well, so I doubt there's a viable DPS technique here.

As I've mentioned before, I really want to ditch the huge current system for computing NG uptime (which currently runs the whole rotation twice, once just to compute NG uptime and once to compute final DPS). In the case of DoT's, using the constant values mentioned above might be not only a good approximation, but might even be more accurate than what's in there now. I think coming up with a good approximation for the effect on NG on other spells might not be too bad.