I'm not sure whether this is the right place to put this, but as this is the theorycraft & spreadsheet thread for cataclysm, I have noticed something really funny with thorns maybe some of you can debunk.
I've done some extensive testing on Thorns, here is the data: IT appears thorns is not really doing what it is supposed to be doing at all.
Druid ability bug - THORNS:
on MMO: Thorns is: Thorns now lasts 20 sec, down from 10 minutes; costs 36% of base mana, up from 17%; has a 45 second cooldown, up from 0; and deals [ 42.1% of Spell Power + 446.94 ] or [ 42.1% of AP + 446.94 ] damage depending on the highest.
Data full formulae: Thorns sprout from the friendly target causing [80+(SP*.168)] Nature damage to attackers when hit. Lasts 20 sec. - might be the post 4.0.3a version. [but tha'ts just the mined info - below is actual in-game test results and observations]
Thorns is not doing the intended damage or multiplier:
1. I assume Thorns is intended to be more effective on a fully geared balance druid than it is on an equivalently geared feral druid who casts it then switches to cat form.
not the case, thorns does less damage on Moonkin Starfury who has better gear than Feral cat Saberclaw [you can armory both on Talinvarr realm [EU]]
2. I assume that spell power co-effiecint and melee attack power co-efficient are meant to multiply the damage of thorns. I also assume that either the spell power co-efficient was intended to be much higher or should be much higher than the attack power co-efficient because typically a feral in cat form has over 2.5 times as much attack power fully geared than a balance druid euqlaly geared has spell power - either that or going cat form is not supposed to alter the attack power contribution to thorns .
Either way. Spell power makes less of a contribution than attack power it would seem. And there doesn't seem to be a difference casting thorns and gettting hit in caster form, then casting thorns then going to cat form and getting hit. Furthermore, there is a slight difference between being hit in Moonkin form and being hit in caster form, thorns is increased somewhat in moonkin form. Removing all gear, thorns does much less damage.
When I cast thorns in sabercalw then shift to cat form, I reflect 1419 damage, when i cast thorns in moonkin form on Starfury, I reflect 945 damage
Here are some test results
-FURTHER TESTING RESUlTS
Tests were done with Starfury - balance druid [armory =
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...arr/starfury/] and Saberclaw feral druid [armory=
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rr/saberclaw/]
Stormpeaks Jomunguar and Ret paladin:
Starfury had glyph of Thorns active, Saberclaw did not.
Both have 3/3 Heart of the wild talent.
MotW buff active:
Feral Druid Saberclaw:
In caster :1113 AP x SP
In cat: 7498 AP 162 SP
In caster no gear 498 AP, 149 sp:
Caster form untalented, no gear 390 AP, 133 SP
Cat form untalenteed, no gear: 542AP, 133 SP
Casting thorns in caster, pulling melee by proximity aggro, thorns do 1419
Casting thorns in caster, switching to cat, pulling melee by proximity aggro, thorns do 1419.
[when removing MotW, damage dropped to 1325]
Caster AND Cat form no gear: both 320 damage
no talent no gear caster & cat form: 281 damage
Balance Druid Starfury:
In caster : 440 AP 3572 SP
In moonkin: 440 AP 3572 SP
in Cat: 440 AP, 3572 SP
Caster & Moonkin no gear: 398 AP, 149 SP
Cat form no gear: 614 AP, 149 SP
Caster form untalented: 201.7 AP 3238 SP
Cat form untalented: 622 AP, 3238 SP
Caster form untalented, no gear 390 AP, 133 SP
Cat form untalenteed, no gear: 542AP, 133 SP
Casting thorns in caster, pulling melee by proximity aggro, thorns do 910
Casting thorns in caster, switching to Moonkin, pulling melee by proximity aggro, thorns do 1001 .
Casting thorns in caster, switching to cat, pulling melee by proximity aggro, thorns do 910 .
Caster form no gear: 345 damage [ 342 w/o MotW]
Moonkin form no gear: 380 damage [377 w/o MotW]
Cat form no gear: 346 damage
no talent caster form & cat form : 704 damage
no talent no gear caster & cat form: 281 damage
Thorns is doing the same damage regardless of whether you're in cat form or not:
More damage if you're in moonkin form than not.
More damage feral spec than not.
It is uncertain what thorns is using to calculate its damage. As it is more on a feral druid and doesn't change based on form (i.e. increasing your attack power
The caster result:
I cannot explain why thorns does more damage in moonkin form seeing that int and spell power do not change. Neither does attack power
Cat form on the balance druid does the same damage as in caster form, same with feral druid, but taelnted, the feral is doing more damage, and though it has more attack power i cannot verify whether this is the cause..
WHat is thorns using?
Conclusion: Where should thorns be? THorns should be more effective on a balance druid than it should be on a feral druid.
I think the original design intention is for thorns to only do the damage it does when you cast iit, and not be modified after wards. However, casting MotW, on the feral druid, saw an immediate jump in reflected damage from 1325 to 1419. BUt going between caster form and melee form made no difference meaning that maybe cat form is not meant to enhance the AP contribution.
I suspect thorns is using something else, my initial guess was base attack power, well attack power in caster form, which explained why the feral druid did more damage off thorns than the balance druid. comparing 1113 AP in caster form to 440, Ideally i really should be testing on the same druid swapping in between specs. But the feral druid is feral geared and the balance druid is balance geared.
The balance druid has better gear than the feral druid, so if they were supposed to do roughly the same damage equally geared, then they're not, the feral is doing more despite being worse geared. So tbh, I don't know what's going on.
11/30/10, 12:59 PM
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