[WOTLK 4.0] Balance Discussion - Page 10

• Hamlet · 10/16/10, 4:30 AM

Ok, I think we're talking past each other a bit here. To be clear, what's going on is:
--Sunfire correctly mimics Moonfire as far as DD size and DoT tick size, including all buffs. This I just reverified. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.
--But, the tick rate is weaker, so the end result is that one cast of Sunfire is weaker than one cast of Moonfire. You can see this in the spreadsheet, and Ace also verified it above.

Rahucun · 10/16/10, 1:55 PM

So if i refresh my moonfire which is often gone or about to be gone during the delay between the nuke and the eclipse proc would be a better option than another nuke which with my haste my starfire are an avg of 1.87sec.?(Going for solar eclipse)

If i look at aceofsween report's total moonfire w/o buff > sunfire (which is supported by Ngand eclipse obviously)

aceofsween · 10/16/10, 2:47 PM

Nature's Grace doesn't effect Sunfire yet (no haste does). Once they sort this problem out, I'm sure an Eclipsed Sunfire with Nature's Grace will correctly line up damage wise with Moonfire.

Elwood · 10/16/10, 3:44 PM

Yes, haste does effect Sunfire. This is one of the bug fixes recently applied. I just confirmed this again. Naked, I get 6 ticks, in gear I get 8, and with NG up I get 10. Duration is the same. HOWEVER, the base tick frequency before haste is applied is every 3 seconds, unlike Moonfire (every 2 seconds). Thus, Sunfire scales with haste, but is inherently weaker than Moonfire.

aceofsween · 10/16/10, 4:30 PM

Just went back and double checked (again...), and yeah, it is scaling with Haste, but the tooltip on the mob shows ticks every 3 seconds. This is getting incredibly annoying. Problems are compounded by the fact that DoTs don't seem to be updating with haste values dynamically, which I wasn't thinking about in my above tests (which just means the NG numbers and Sunfires numbers are slightly lower than they should be).

I still am going to say this isn't intentional. Sunfire's DoT ticks should either be 50% stronger than Moonfires or their tick interval needs to be dropped to 2 seconds. That would fix all the problems associated with it.

The question really becomes what do we do if spells are never setup so that haste values update dynamically. In either case, we are stuck with one DoT not getting the effect of Nature's Grace.

• Hamlet · 10/16/10, 4:34 PM

I would not hold out hope for DoT's/HoT's reading values dynamically. Sunfire being 3s though, I'm pretty sure is unintended.

• Hamlet · 10/17/10, 1:01 AM

Is anyone seeing any level-based partial resists against 83 targets?

GotlandsUgglan · 10/17/10, 3:26 AM

Regarding Partial Resists

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Not a single time during the last raid i did,up to Dreamwalker. However this was pre nerf.

benscott · 10/17/10, 7:53 PM

Ok ive been reading up on this Sunfire v Moonfire.. but cant get answers, so can anyone clear up my questions :

1. Should i use Sunfire at all?

and

2. Should i apply Sunfire if Moonfire is still up?

Mostly i think i have to reapply MF just before or around about my way to the solar eclipse, so should i wait keep SFing then apply Sunfire during the eclipse?

Thermomenes · 10/18/10, 5:25 AM

Originally Posted by benscott

Ok ive been reading up on this Sunfire v Moonfire.. but cant get answers, so can anyone clear up my questions :

1. Should i use Sunfire at all?

and

2. Should i apply Sunfire if Moonfire is still up?

Mostly i think i have to reapply MF just before or around about my way to the solar eclipse, so should i wait keep SFing then apply Sunfire during the eclipse?

1- If your MF is falling/falls off during a Solar, cast Sunfire. Otherwise, don't sweat it and let the MF dot finish. Check back here when changes to Sunfire happen for new instructions.

2- No.

Kluian · 10/18/10, 10:59 AM

Partial resists were removed in one of the recent patches I believe.

Arythorn · 10/19/10, 9:01 AM

Two real issues I noticed last night (first time I've been able to raid since patch dropped) on HLK attempts and kill were:

1) bar retaining direction after a wipe is very undesirable. I get it's tied to the removal of decay but I'd like to think that death would reset you to neutral energy. Being forced to start your rotation in the opposite direction of the way you want to go because you wiped going that way was a bit meh. Here's to hoping they fix that.

2) threat is ugly. I don't mean off the bat threat but 1 min to 2 mins in threat. More than a couple times I had to just stop (even with salvation). I get everyone got their threat taken away but many of them retained some sort of threat drop / reduction ability. We have cower which is melee range.

I'm not sure of any strategies to fix either of these issues other than Blizz eyeballing them and making some changes. The direction issue you just have to grin and bear it at this point. The threat issue, best you could do right now is either stop dpsing and/or cat form sprint to melee cower sprint back. That would accomplish a dps stop as you're using GCDs for things not involving damage and a threat reduction but it's not exactly very elegant.

On a brighter note, even post-damage-pass, we are in a good place at lvl 80 haste/crit levels.

footstomp · 10/19/10, 9:51 AM

I am not sure if this has been seen, but mark of the wild does not seem to be proccing a clearcast. My fellow boomkin and I chain casted like 50 of them in a 25 man and no clearcast.

Frenzi · 10/19/10, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Arythorn

2) threat is ugly. I don't mean off the bat threat but 1 min to 2 mins in threat. More than a couple times I had to just stop (even with salvation). I get everyone got their threat taken away but many of them retained some sort of threat drop / reduction ability. We have cower which is melee range.

I noticed this doing a 10 man ICC, me and the mage were doing virtually the same damage but he was no where near my TPS. This was within 1 to 2 mins the same and he hadn't used invis though he had probably popped mirror image(not 100% sure how this affects threat honestly as it has been a while since I played my mage). Would give my right nut for some threat reduction on CD, always hated the passive threat reduction this class had.

Hoedown · 10/19/10, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by footstomp

I am not sure if this has been seen, but mark of the wild does not seem to be proccing a clearcast. My fellow boomkin and I chain casted like 50 of them in a 25 man and no clearcast.

Thought it was just me, but I haven't had clearcast proc on Mark of the Wild either. Although I've had it proc during a talent switch.