[WOTLK 4.0] Balance Discussion - Page 17

magojo · 11/17/10, 12:11 PM

What is the rough calculation to figure out at what haste the dots gain extra ticks?
Been reading around on plusheal for their discussions about hots and trying to do my own calculations but i never seem to end up with any of the numbers you got, and i cant even backtrack 1406, for example, to a tick time that makes sense to me, using the number for our dots with a 2 second base tick time and then an 18 second duration. Been trying both subtracting and dividing with the 5% moonkin buff but can't seem to end up at the numbers you produced.

What i wanted to do was to see if you could squeeze in a 15th (17th with NG) tick by having the Black Magic proc + Engineering gloves (an extra 490 haste) before you cast the dots at 1406 or more haste.

I don't know if i'm missing something, but i'd really like to understand the math behind it

• Hamlet · 11/17/10, 12:49 PM

A DoT with n base ticks has haste breakpoints at haste values of h=(2k+1)/(2n). e.g for Rejuv, at haste values of 1/8, 3/8, etc.

To account for the 5% haste buff, H = (1+h)/1.05 - 1. So the 5th tick of Rejuv is at 1.125/1.05 - 1 = 7.14% haste.

magojo · 11/17/10, 1:12 PM

Cheers for the reply, so for IS 14th tick, that would mean k=13?
That worked out as 1405.29 so i'm guessing i'm on track

That would make a 15th tick possible at 53.44% haste or 1752.27 haste rating, which would indeed be possible to reach with BM+accelerators

Arythorn · 11/17/10, 1:49 PM

@ Hamlet: trying to model something in Wrathcalcs and not sure I'm doing it right. Namely, I'm at 1368 haste and currently have 4 x 10 INT / 10 haste gems in yellow sockets. I can swap those 4 gems for 4 x 20 haste gems thus pushing myself 2 over the 1406 breakpoint on dot haste.

Clearly I should subtract 40 INT and add 40 haste on the spreadsheet. But, should I also reduce spell power by 47 (40*1.17= 47 sp)? Assuming that's true, still looks like a marginal dps increase but I want to make sure I have the right read on this (especially as I willl likely be going through this exercise on break points far more in the coming months).

Thanks,

Calc

• Hamlet · 11/17/10, 2:01 PM

You would add the haste and subtract both Int and spellpower. Basically, the WC inputs are supposed to always match your character sheet, and removing Int on gems would reduce both Int and spellpower on your character sheet. I guess it's a bit cumbersome to have to change both, but I'm still hoping to have a better frontend in soon for easier gear comparison.

Duba · 11/18/10, 4:44 AM

When u proc eclipse and then cast a first dot, the dot seems to benifit from the NG it procs.
Has anyone noticed this and can deny or confirm?

Latas · 11/18/10, 6:39 AM

Originally Posted by Duba

When u proc eclipse and then cast a first dot, the dot seems to benifit from the NG it procs.
Has anyone noticed this and can deny or confirm?

Just checked on a dummy, no change. The dot that puts up nature's grace does not get the benefit of it. What you could be seeing is that sunfire is now ticking at the proper rate (matches moonfire).

Starfox · 11/18/10, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by Duba

When u proc eclipse and then cast a first dot, the dot seems to benifit from the NG it procs.
Has anyone noticed this and can deny or confirm?

don't check tooltips for this :C

Myllo · 11/18/10, 1:59 PM

Since the latest patch, my macro for hypo-gloves has been off and I haven't figured out what to change it too. Now obviously, we can't have it attached to moonfire because it doesn't work for when it shifts to sunfire. So do most have it macro'd to IS? I'm trying to think of a solution to have it work for both MF/Sunfire and IS, without having to add another keybind.

(used to have just MF/Sunfire and hypo all into one)

Or is there a better solution that I'm not aware of?

• Hamlet · 11/18/10, 2:02 PM

Before long it's going to be an Int clicky anyway, and then you just can macro it to everything.

Arythorn · 11/18/10, 2:14 PM

Originally Posted by Myllo

Since the latest patch, my macro for hypo-gloves has been off and I haven't figured out what to change it too. Now obviously, we can't have it attached to moonfire because it doesn't work for when it shifts to sunfire. So do most have it macro'd to IS? I'm trying to think of a solution to have it work for both MF/Sunfire and IS, without having to add another keybind.

/use 10
/cast moonfire

works fine for me for both sunfire and moonfire

/use 10
/cast insect swarm clearly works as well

until dec. 7th, those are good places to leave it. post dec. 7th, as Hamlet notes, macro it to everything.

• Hamlet · 11/18/10, 2:26 PM

Well, Hyperspeed aren't actually changing. I meant that once you hit 85 you'll be putting on the Int one.

Argrenthal · 11/19/10, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Qalor

It's been a bit random. There certainly are times we are unable to use 2 rebirths in one fight, but sometimes we can. Even more annoying, sometimes other druids can't rebirth for 30 minutes after one druid does it, even after dropping combat and entering a new one. It seems rather buggy and inconsistent at the moment.

Originally Posted by Almightywood

On the whole sunfire vs. moonfire discussion.....

I think it may have been intentional to make sunfire less powerful than moonfire in tick rate since insect swarm is also buffed by solar. This way they could make it so your dots were ticking for the same combined amount when you were eclipsed regardless of type of eclipse, and a lower combined rate when not eclipsed.

If I had to make a guess as to why sunfire is roughly the same as uneclipsed moonfire, and insect swarm was so much more powerful at first, it would probably be that the ratios they developed didn't have sufficient testing done with the IS and MF glyphs equipped.

Would have been fairly easy to test my theory (by simply removing the glyphs) if they hadn't already hot-fixed the dots.

...Oh well.

Also I was in a raid recently that we were unable to use 2 rebirths in one fight.
Other players in the raid stated that only one can be used per fight now.

Has anyone else seen something similar happen?
It would be nice to know if this was a bug, or by design.
By design would be a bit irritating, druids contribute much less in general to the raid with this new setup already.

Here is a blue post response from Zarhym concerning the issue.
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Updated Combat Resurrection Design

The design for combat resurrection effects has changed a good deal for Cataclysm, and we want to make sure players are clear on how spells like Rebirth and Create Soulstone now function. Rebirth has a 10-minute cooldown and Create Soulstone has a 15-minute cooldown. On raid boss encounters, you can only use one of these combat resurrection spells (so one Rebirth or one Soulstone) per attempt for 10-player raids. For 25-player raids you can use three forms of combat resurrection per raid boss attempt (so three of any combination of Rebirth and Soulstone). The count is incremented as soon as a player accepts a resurrection, so one can always choose not to accept if he or she wants someone else to get the resurrection instead. There is no equivalent of the Sated debuff (which tracks Bloodlust/Heroism usage), but you will get an error message if you try to resurrect too many players, and we might add tracking to our raid interface if there is demand for it. Outside of raid content, you can use as many battle resurrections as you have available.

For those of you currently participating in the World of Warcraft: Cataclysm beta test, please note that this functionality may not be fully implemented as of yet. If you notice combat resurrections are not currently functioning as explained here, this is just a heads-up about the updated design intent behind them.

• Hamlet · 11/23/10, 1:57 AM

So, we all have to pick new specs tomorrow. I figure a brief discussion of solo leveling specs is fine. In particular, can anyone who leveled on beta say how the mana situation was while leveling?

I'm guessing that some talents like Genesis (and maybe Euphoria?) are pointless, while others like Owlkin Frenzy might be handy.

I'm assuming the most common solo play will be perpetual-Solar--Heavy Sunfire spam, and general use of IS/Typhoon/Hurricane whenever they present themselves. Maybe something like:
WoW Talent Calculator - Sigrie.
with Master Shapeshifter at 81, and beyond that it probably doesn't matter too much.

Any comments from someone who actually leveled on the beta might be good though.

GotlandsUgglan · 11/23/10, 2:18 AM

In regards of levling we go from rampage to chickens.

Until 82 it is just dot all and go starfall. No issues with mana or health.

Deepholm changes this a bit where you want to single target nuke the mobs and you really dont want them to hit you since they will take a significant chunk of your health. At the same time mana starts to be something you need to look at but mainly due to the fact that you need to heal yourself.

In Uldum and Twilight we are constrained even more, not so much on mana for dps but since we need to hear or self alot more then in earlier level.

It is due to the fact that at 80 we are overgearad to the mobs we are fighting, but in Deepholm we are getting the same value in gear as we have from ICC HC so the mobs are more in align to us by then.

So i would pick DPS and then go for mana/longetivity