[BETA] Cat Discussion - Page 2

a civilian · 11/08/10, 12:23 PM

Quick observation: the stacking buff provided by the Stormrider's Battlegarb (tier 11) 4-piece set bonus, Strength of the Panther, falls off whenever you leave cat form.

eXcel905 · 11/15/10, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Defyn

I'm not at hit cap anymore on beta, it's not been much of an issue. I prefer to be capped when learning new fights, but nothing's been that challenging so I've moved away from that a bit.

More accurate percentages than from what I had before. This is from Theralion and Valiona, which requires a ton of movement, and as such DPS is much lower. Shredding is a huge issue given the mechanics too.

There are no AoE mechanics in any of the raids so far, it seems they want to move away from that. Swipe is still critting for less than 10k with my current gear, which is about a tick of Rake. It's much more efficient in terms of energy to just rake multiple targets, even on trash (energy is at a premium atm).

Shred requiring us to be behind the target is antiquated. There have been multiple times on that fight and the Conclave where I had to stop DPSing completely and wait for better positioning to allow me to do anything. Mangle has been buffed, yes, but bad positioning makes Glyph of Shred useless.

I noticed that you only have 5 mangles, does this mean that the 4pc for feral is not worth going for come cata? (under the impression theres gear with better stats)

sigurr0s · 11/19/10, 10:07 AM

Does the BiS profession combo of BS/JC get outperformed by any other professions in Cataclysm?

DazeKaze · 11/19/10, 10:48 AM

If current stat values stay the same LW is hands down the best profession. 130 agi as opposed to 80 agi 65 Crit provided by BS, Enchanting, JC. The second profession is pretty even across the board with providing 80 Agi. Engineering needs some more work to figure out its potential value but rocket boots have always been a huge perk even for a very mobile class like feral.

sigurr0s · 11/19/10, 12:11 PM

Yeah, I can see how LW is much better. I wish I could start leveling it now, but I don't want to level it and then find out that they're nerfing it, or adding an agi bracer enchant for everyone.

What does Engineering give you? I looked at the list and the only offensive glove enchant I see is a pyro-rocket equivalent. The 208 mastery cogwheel looks good, but it forces you to use an Engineering helm?... I don't know if this will be worth it with engineering helms being lower iLevel than hard mode raid loot.

a civilian · 11/19/10, 12:11 PM

Noting the new requirements on the crit damage meta (more blue gems than red gems at the time of writing, also applied to the lower level metas), blacksmithing is now one of the weakest professions since it effectively only grants +40 agi/+20 hit/+20 mastery rather than +80 agi.

Edit: the cogwheels are only to customize the secondary stats on the engineering helms. The total stat budget of helm+cogwheels is the same as that of other helmets of the same item level.

Docrev · 11/19/10, 3:03 PM

That's assuming that the crit damage meta ends up being worth using. At least for rogues, current thinking is suggesting that it's not worth using until late in the first tier of raiding, though it may be a bit better for cats, due to the fact that they don't have to deal with the poison crit issues that weaken it for rogues.

Leafkiller · 11/19/10, 3:44 PM

I think the level 80 Relentless Meta is slightly better than the level 85 crit meta for a feral at the t11 level (agi is so much better than crit). I am hoping there is a level 85 Relentless meta that is a world drop. None of the other metas that you can train at level 85 compare - even when you take into account the blue>red requirement.

*Disclaimer - my results are based on making a level 85 premade feral and gemming/reforging appropriately and then testing with Mew. The premades are Enchanters/JCs. BTW, on Beta the level 80 relentless meta also requires more blue gems than red gems - so the comparison is 21 agi vs. 54 crit rating with identical gems everywhere else.

tagosa · 11/19/10, 3:59 PM

Have you considered using the +mastery meta? With a 2 yellow requirement, it solves the issue of having to use hit or hit-hybrid gems in favor of mostly agil and/or agil/mastery hybrids to get certain worthwhile bonuses.

Jone · 11/19/10, 4:19 PM

Originally Posted by Leafkiller

I think the level 80 Relentless Meta is slightly better than the level 85 crit meta for a feral at the t11 level (agi is so much better than crit).

At 3.0, the +10% armor level 70 meta was nerfed to match the level 80 one. I have seen a post that the level 80 relentless will require more blue than red in Cata in much the same way. So far, most people have been guessing that we'll be using some other meta until they come to their senses and make the requirement reasonable.

Yeah, relentless requires at least 1 yellow and more blue than red, follow the link to see the cata version of it:
Relentless Earthsiege Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft

Unless you mean that even discounting the stupid gem requirements, 21 agi is better than 54 crit rating?

Leafkiller · 11/19/10, 4:38 PM

Originally Posted by tagosa

Have you considered using the +mastery meta? With a 2 yellow requirement, it solves the issue of having to use hit or hit-hybrid gems in favor of mostly agil and/or agil/mastery hybrids to get certain worthwhile bonuses.

I used the +mastery meta initially and ran sims with that. After regemming with the crit meta, I think the difference was about +90 dps - so the 3% crit bonus outweighed the lost agility due to the blue>red requirement (I did end up hit capped though - so it is not the end of the world for those who like stability in their rotation).

At 3.0, the +10% armor level 70 meta was nerfed to match the level 80 one. I have seen a post that the level 80 relentless will require more blue than red in Cata in much the same way. So far, most people have been guessing that we'll be using some other meta until they come to their senses and make the requirement reasonable.

I stated that in my post above in the "Disclaimer" section. Even with the same meta requirements, the RSV of agility is typically 3x that of crit rating (both using the formulation and simulation models in Mew). Assuming that Mew is more or less correct, then 21 agil is worth more than 54 crit rating. It is in the 8-9dps range using both formulation and simulation in Mew on my t11 premade toon - in other words it is a very small difference. We really need the level 85 relentless meta regardless of the gemming requirements but until it is available you might want to hang onto a few of the level 80 ones.

Pyrrish · 11/26/10, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by DazeKaze

If current stat values stay the same LW is hands down the best profession. 130 agi as opposed to 80 agi 65 Crit provided by BS, Enchanting, JC. The second profession is pretty even across the board with providing 80 Agi. Engineering needs some more work to figure out its potential value but rocket boots have always been a huge perk even for a very mobile class like feral.

The Agi numbers you quoted are correct, however the LW bracer enchant comes at the cost of a normal bracer enchant (50 crit, 50 haste, etc.), while the other professions do not make that tradeoff. So it might be more accurate to put that into perspective.

LW: +130 Agi, no 50 crit to bracers (or whatever ends up being optimal)
Enchanting/BS: +80 Agi, gets 50 crit to bracers

Given Agility's value, Leatherworking is probably still best (i.e. 50 extra Agi is better than 50 of a secondary stat), but I thought this was worth clarifying.