I am sure that Eff. will be absolutely worth it. A heal that can be placed on the ground and forgotten about is very strong. It may be only a small amount, but the 28k heal that you already get by doing the RJ+SM combination combined with Eff. makes it good.

I'm also not sure about the whole Malfurion's Gift thing. I you do raid healing in a 25 man raid, I doubt you will want to maintain a 3-stack Lifebloom on the tank continously. Depending on your healing task, this can be a very good, or a mediocre/bad talent.

Nature's Ward. I seriously doubt this will be a good talent. One Rejuvenation on yourself when you are under 50% health sounds handy, but not worth 2 talent points. It also depends if there is an internal CD, whether it activates while casting and if the Rejuvenation cast by that talent behaves exactly like our normal RJ (mastery, Nourish etc.).




I think they should:

- unlink Living Seed and Efflorescence
- Swap Moonglow with Nature's Grace (more possibilites)
- make some talents cheaper (Nature's Bounty for example)

Well, it's not that simple. OoC cannot be purely converted into mp5, because there is a substantial amount of time pressure, chance of overhealing and chance of not beingt able to use it because of encounter specific mechanics (movement etc.). I agree it's a very good talent when you are able to take advantage of it.

I wasn't, however, referring to a situation where you are able to keep up Lifebloom on the tank, but to a situation where you are unable to do so. There are two main reasons for this (that I can think of right now): range and time.
If I think about Nefarian 10 man, in P3 when the fire and the adds spawn, there is a substantial amount of chaos (mainly caused by the fire). The fire can prevent you from being in range, you have to prioritize between Lifebloom on tank or raid healing (where raid members are far away from the tank) etc. etc.

Then there is the possibility of massive raid damage ocurring. Of course on farm status, no encounter is normally seriously challenging, but in progression raids, where optimal performance really matters, encounters usually present a fairly big challenge (in the easy ones perfect performance doesn't matter obviously). So keeping Lifebloom up at all times during a real massive session of raid damage with a big chance of wiping is, in my opinion, not realistically possible.

Of course this is only true for encounters that require fast/strong healing and not for encounters that require steady performance and longevity.

Unless things are so urgent that you don't have any time at all for Lb, you will still want to have it on somebody, even if the tank is not in range.

Lb*1 has a fairly high HPET (between HT and Regrowth). Of the spells that cost any mana at all, its HPM is higher than anything other than other the other Lifebloom strategies, or Swiftmend when Efflorescence hits three or more targets. It also support Symbiosis.

If mana is a consideration, you should make sure to have Lb up on somebody unless you don't have time, or you'll need to put it on somebody else in the very near future.

I'm basing this off the treecalcs 10/10/10 4.0 l80 spreadsheet, after fixing the Lb direct-heal coefficient and cutting Efflorescence to 30%. The relative strength between spells shouldn't change too much at 85 (lower haste hurts HoTs, lower Crit hurts Living Seed spells).

Here is a talent spec that has every regen talent and 0/3 efflo. What would you drop to get 3/3 efflo? You are not allowed to drop any regen talents (moonglow/furor/MG/revit). You are also not allowed throughput talents stronger than efflo.

Unrelated point about furor: taking a single point in furor allows resto druids to shapeshift into cat and instantly cower, which is a 10% threat drop now. This could be situationally useful.

You will want to keep LB up at all times. Period. If you have range or time issues and lose it, you need to get it up again. It procs revitalize and MG, and t11 4pc so its very important for regen, and it's, as other people have said, very mana efficient healing.

If there is raid damage, some of it is likely going on the tank anyway. And you seem to be thinking like wotlk, that we can do nothing but focus on healing raid, we CAN'T spam rj for very long at all. Which means we'll always have a gcd to keep lb up. The only reason you should ever get out of range of the tank, is if the other tank is OOR and you need to heal him. In which case of course you switch your lb stack.

LB is our most important heal with the mana constraints we have. Only bad druids won't have it active for more then a second or two.

That was kind of my point actually. If I saw a healer with all regen talents but 3/3 Furor and 2/3 Moonglow, while not optimal its pretty close. The ONLY valid regen talent choice we have is whether to max Furor or Moonglow, we'll want Revitalize, and MG for sure.

There's a formula you can use to determine which is better, if you figure out which % of your regen is from percent based mechanics. For instance if you had 2-3 Resto shamans dropping tide it would weigh more in Furor's favor.

Although after the Revitalize nerf I'd be pretty confident saying moonglow will be better in at least 95% of cases. We are talking about 1 point of course, you still want 2/3 Furor.

You can't neglect Furor. It may not be a regen talent, but 10% (or 15%) extra mana is seriously a lot. If you're going to take Efflor you are going to want to take 3/3 to make it even close to respectable, not 2/2. You CAN take it in a non-regen spec:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (or similar)

But so far from what I've been seeing we should be picking up these regen talents. I can imagine in a tier or two we won't need them though.

Where did it say I was neglecting Furor? I said exactly what is true - you can spec 8/2/31 with 3/3 LS and 2/3 Eff without losing a single regen talent. Furthermore, I expect Swift Rejuv to be removed allowing for 3/3 Eff - but even if that doesn't happen, I don't see other more attractive options in the resto tree.
Like nearly all talents, Eff has diminishing returns. So if that 3rd point is worth it over some other talent (say BotG) then not getting 2/3 because it's not complete or pretty or whatever is just psychological, since certainly in that case the 2nd point is worth more.
The exception for diminishing returns are RNG talents. 1/2 Imp Sprint, for instance, is terrible, so you want 2/2 or none.

You can also pick Eff. 3/3 in a regen build. You simply have keep the Resto tree at 31 points always.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
That's how I am specced at the moment, although admittedly I'm not happy having only 2/3 points in Nature's Bounty.

If they were to unlink Living Seed from Eff. we could put those 3 points in different talents. It would be nowhere near overpowered, since the talent alternatives aren't anything particularly strong.

Revitalize has a 12 second cd in Beta, up from 6. Assuming you always have a Lifebloom stack up, and a couple of Rejuves ticking, and a bit of haste, then one point in Revitalize should get you a Revitalize proc within a few seconds of it coming off cd. The second point gets you that proc perhaps a second and a half sooner.

So, 1/2 Revitalize gets a proc roughly every 15 seconds.
2/2 gets a proc perhaps every 13.5 seconds.
(And the difference vanishes when in ToL.)

With so much competition for talent points in our tree, 2/2 seems like overkill? Discuss.

Number of talents spent does not affect proc rate, it affects mana gained.

Your replenishment numbers are off by a factor of 10. Along with the initial mana-pool boost, Furor is pretty competitive when tank healing - it is stronger than Moonglow when spamming Nourish, for instance. Moonglow is still the better point investment in nearly all cases, though, at least at current gear levels, espeically since the 3rd point in Moonglow is the strongest.