[BETA] Resto Discussion - Page 2

Fallenangel · 10/16/10, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by Hoofhearted

If you call resto builds bloated you will never be happy. Resto builds are in a very good state and there are many different ways to spec, probably the spec with the most actual choices right now.

This choice between throughput and throughput is the very definition of bloat in the way Blizzard presented their new vision for talent trees.
The sheer amount of talents that one can take in the resto tree is not even close to any other spec in the game - healing, DPS or tanking. Not a single other spec can spend 40 points and not take a single utility / pvp / fun talent that's not a forced preq.
You're cheering for something Blizzard specifically said they want to move away from, that's specifically not supposed to happen. And the violation in the resto tree is so blatant that it's really hard to explain.

Originally Posted by Carebare

HT to refresh LB is great. I think all we need now is someway to reduce the cast time on HT further (which other classes have on their biggest heals, some sort of proc from casting something else).

To be fair, paladins were changed just now to not have a proc (or well, not a reliable one - they need a crit on HS). Only shamans remain as the outlier with 100%, 2 charge haste from riptide. HT is now also the cheapest big heal.

♦ Carebare · 10/16/10, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by Kluian

Build - 13195

Empowered Touch is bugged. Neither nourish or healing touch refresh lifebloom stacks.

Mostly accurate, though it refreshes a lifebloom stack on yourself. (Both spells) Just not on other people, which is yea fairly useless.

Originally Posted by Fallenangel

To be fair, paladins were changed just now to not have a proc (or well, not a reliable one - they need a crit on HS). Only shamans remain as the outlier with 100%, 2 charge haste from riptide. HT is now also the cheapest big heal.

Actually, Serendipity still exists I think?

Fallenangel · 10/16/10, 4:18 PM

Fair enough, I forgot about Serendipity. I think it's a disparity that falls well within the uniqueness of classes, though. Gaining 30% haste for 2 spellcasts every 6 seconds, on the other hand...

Dav1l · 10/16/10, 6:44 PM

Originally Posted by Fallenangel

This choice between throughput and throughput is the very definition of bloat in the way Blizzard presented their new vision for talent trees.
The sheer amount of talents that one can take in the resto tree is not even close to any other spec in the game - healing, DPS or tanking. Not a single other spec can spend 40 points and not take a single utility / pvp / fun talent that's not a forced preq.
You're cheering for something Blizzard specifically said they want to move away from, that's specifically not supposed to happen. And the violation in the resto tree is so blatant that it's really hard to explain.

This choice between throughput and throughput is actually what makes speccing fun. I was doing my warlock tonight and basically had fun/fun choices. To be honest, they are pretty dull and you don't need to put any research or thought in them whatsoever. You end up doing well whatever choice you make. I sincerely hope restoration tree stays the same as it is now.

I do understand that tastes differ, but I honestly can't understand why would one want warlock-like tree. Imagine that you had something like Nature's Grace vs. Fury of Stormrage vs. Nature's Ward. There's no 'lose' scenario, you always win. You get a really small benefit to something you don't use often OR you get a really small benefit to something you don't use often. Pick a random one and you are good. Please explain me, how is it fun?

Kluian · 10/17/10, 1:35 AM

On the bright side it seems like the LB refresh mechanic is a lot smoother than it use to be. Just testing on myself I'm able to refresh the LB with Nourish/HT when the hot is ticking in the <1 second range (where the hot states 0 seconds remaining on the tooltip).

Fallenangel · 10/17/10, 3:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dav1l

This choice between throughput and throughput is actually what makes speccing fun. I was doing my warlock tonight and basically had fun/fun choices. To be honest, they are pretty dull and you don't need to put any research or thought in them whatsoever. You end up doing well whatever choice you make. I sincerely hope restoration tree stays the same as it is now.

I do understand that tastes differ, but I honestly can't understand why would one want warlock-like tree. Imagine that you had something like Nature's Grace vs. Fury of Stormrage vs. Nature's Ward. There's no 'lose' scenario, you always win. You get a really small benefit to something you don't use often OR you get a really small benefit to something you don't use often. Pick a random one and you are good. Please explain me, how is it fun?

The resto tree is a balance bomb waiting to go off. If druids are balanced around having all throughput talents, then they will be underpowered cause they can't use them. If Rejuv is fine without BotG and Genesis then it risks becoming too good down the line.
I don't derive the fun from speccing. It's a tedious task that's mostly mechanical, and the fun should come from the game itself - possibly because of talents such as Eff or MG - but not because of choosing them but because of using them.
If 29 specs behave one way and this unique snowflake of a spec goes the other way, well then, changing the 1 spec is probably the way to go. Although I should probably say 3-4 specs and not 1 because that will be how many specs you'll switch between from fight to fight.
I wish we were in the situation you described, choosing between NG, FoS and NW. Those are all viable choices, all non-trivial but not spec defining. Yes, please.

• RobotChicken · 10/17/10, 1:16 PM

I'm going to try the Raid Testing on the beta today. I'm going to play it safe and gem for Spirit in all the gear that I can, because I don't know how big of an issue mana is going to be in raids. If any of you are going I would suggest you do the same.

♦ Carebare · 10/17/10, 1:22 PM

I actually will be gearing differently (haste as the priority). I've run a few heroics and have had 0 mana problems. It will be interesting to see how it lines up.

• RobotChicken · 10/17/10, 2:29 PM

My figuring is that in heroics, not only is the content easier (especially in the raid gear that premades have), but also you spend a significantly higher amount of time out of combat, even if you're chain pulling. Raid fights are a lot longer than that.

That being said, the haste on my premade's gear is pitiful. I may reforge some Mastery or Crit to at least reach about 15%.

EDIT: Were you planning on even gemming Haste over Intellect? When I said gemming for spirit, what I really meant was putting hybrid gems in yellow/blue slots that had some Spirit on them.

• Hamlet · 10/17/10, 2:59 PM

It should be 915 haste (7.15%) to get your 5th tick of Rejuv, btw.

• Hamlet · 10/17/10, 4:00 PM

Is there currently no way to cast Lifebloom with a macro then (because it picks up the Tree version)? Or with Clique for that matter?

• RobotChicken · 10/17/10, 4:45 PM

Apparently not. It works fine on Live, but annoyingly it is still broken on the Beta. It's been dropping off really often because of this for me.

♦ Carebare · 10/17/10, 5:18 PM

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
First boss kill in BWD.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
First boss in TH.

• Hamlet · 10/17/10, 5:23 PM

Same, just killed the robots too. Have a bunch of screenshots.

Is Empowered Touch refresh not working? I thought it was on beta.

Drane · 10/17/10, 5:23 PM

First boss in Bastion, Halfus. World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Rejuv blanketing is still a viable strategy, at least during the AoE damage parts of the fight, especially during the end. I found popping ToL during one of the scorches was pretty decent to spam lifeblooms+regrowths on OoC procs, so I could have it up at the end when he's going all spin-spinny.

Sitting @ 1300 haste right now, I reforged a bit of my spirit as heroics were showing I really didn't need regen.

Also nope, Emp Touch is still not refreshing.