Well done on the OP, couple of typos here and there but I will try and PM you the details if I have time before class. One thing I noted, are we still using the Int/Spirit enchants for shoulders/head? I am favoring the SP/Crit ones because, well, they give more SP and Crit than the other option. Even factoring in the crit from the Intellect. We obviously don't need the mana, so...
I was under the impression that the Empowered Touch bug was beta-only. In any case, Nourish is refreshing Lifebloom properly on live, as of right now. That is, unless you're referring to ToL Lifeblooms(which do not refresh), in which case you should specify.
Last edited by AntiSemantic : 10/19/10 at 8:10 PM.
As far as the recommended talent spec, I wouldn't put any points into Naturalist. I can't see much reason at all to cast Nourish or Healing Touch in 4.0.1. I'd take the points out of Naturalist and Empowered Touch, put 3 points into Furor in the feral tree and you've got a spare point to play with - possibly to fill out Revitalise.
Confirmed that Nourish does refresh Lifebloom properly in live as the previous poster mentioned. Haven't tested under ToL CD. Also, WG does have a much higher range (more like raid wide, as in you can hit WG your ranged and melee will get it too) which increases it's worth since it's smart targeting.
I didn't see you mentioning that Tranquility now also leaves a HoT on the people who were healed which stacks to 3 times. The spell ticks 4 times over 8 seconds (2s ticks) and each tick activates a stack of HoT (from what I've seen the fourth tick just refreshes the duration of the 3rd stack of the HoT). Also, the HoT from Tranquility should activate Symbiosis.
On another note I didn't see your spreadsheets attached, I suppose it just slipped from you.
Trinkets: A large number of trinkets have Intellect, and you'll want to use two of these. The highest-Intellect trinkets are [Althor's Abacus] and [Solace of the Fallen]. There's a good line of healer trinkets with passive spellpower and a mana proc, of which [Purified Lunar Dust] is now an easily-accessible example.
Isn't [Purified Lunar Dust] even better than [Solace of the Fallen] (maybe you should link the hero version) ? It has more int (which is also regen, mana, crit) and shouldn't be much less regen than Solace. Has anyone mp5-values of those trinkets ?
Also the two Halion trinkets [Glowing Twilight Scale] and [Glowing Twilight Scale] should be more interesting now, since they have a lot of int and we could use the cooldown in our tree moments.
It's true that int is now a regen stat, but we are talking about a relatively minor int delta between solace and other trinkets, and solaces have a massive, massive, overbudget spirit stack. Solaces certainly give a much bigger return than abacus/scale on long fights like HLK, which is the only conceivable time at 80 where mana might matter.
Even though the difference in Int is small, its worth correcting. The quoted piece of the OP specifies Solace and Abacus as the two highest Int trinkets, which is just false. Both Lunar Dust and Twilight Scale beat Solace. A caveat that Solace is still the winner for the limited number of situations where one is concerned about mana can be added after.
Great guide, with a lot of useful information. Maybe one small comment:
The 15% healing bonus from Tree of Life is not mentioned in the OP, although it is in my opinion the most important effect of ToL at level 80. Spreading lifeblooms in ToL can indeed save a lot of mana but is still lower HPET than rejuv, and mana is not a concern at level 80, so I do not see much use of it. As you mention, regrowth does not get any throughput gain, and the advantage of instant regrowths is balanced by the need to spend a GCD for casting ToL first. The WG bonus is nice but you cannot cast more than 2 WG during the 30 sec of ToL anyway.
All in all, I feel that ToL is best used when more throughput is needed, and is currently better suited to be used with a rejuv spam, or to boost a Tranquility.
I realize that intellect is obviously the best stat and thus we shouldn't interchange intellect with haste for example. I think it can't be stressed enough how important the 1016 haste breakpoint is; given the healing style for lvl80 that won't be that much different than before patch, 1 extra tick per rejuvenation cast is a huge boost. In my case, I regemmed for haste, losing ~80int and subsequently more than 100+ SP due to some broken socket bonis, but my hps potential jumped up tremendously. That of course was the last resort I had since all my pieces were already reforged and couldn't make the 1016 mark with just that.
After some raid fights with the new haste, I can safely say that the boost in healing from making this breakpoint is worthwhile even if you have to sacrifice some int/SP as I had to. I understand that won't be the case for most people but I wanted to give my perspective. Spreadsheet is also reflecting this change in hps rather adequately to the point that is feasible.
Since [Glowing Twilight Scale] was mentioned, I find it privy to point out that this trinket is probably only good if the direct healing portion of Rejuv from GotEM counts as a "direct heal," which I am not sure of. Someone pointed out to me that the old set bonus that did the same thing counted as a direct heal, in which case this trinket is probably BiS now. On the other hand, I can't test this because I don't know any other trinkets that proc off direct healing off the top of my head, and they aren't easy to search for.
EDIT: Except maybe Val'anyr, which I don't have and also procs off of HoTs already.
I think it can't be stressed enough how important the 1016 haste breakpoint is; given the healing style for lvl80 that won't be that much different than before patch, 1 extra tick per rejuvenation cast is a huge boost. In my case, I regemmed for haste, losing ~80int and subsequently more than 100+ SP due to some broken socket bonis, but my hps potential jumped up tremendously. That of course was the last resort I had since all my pieces were already reforged and couldn't make the 1016 mark with just that.
After some raid fights with the new haste, I can safely say that the boost in healing from making this breakpoint is worthwhile even if you have to sacrifice some int/SP as I had to. I understand that won't be the case for most people but I wanted to give my perspective. Spreadsheet is also reflecting this change in hps rather adequately to the point that is feasible.
The extra tick on Rejuvenation is a very minor HPS increase but a large HPCT (efficiency) boost. For a better explanation than I can easily type out, see here (second graph).
Haste increases HPS linearly but has major efficiency increases as you pass a breakpoint. The additional throughput you are seeing is perhaps more a result of extremely fast RG casts in an environment unconstrained by mana worries. That should not be possible at 85 in the initial stages.
The extra tick on Rejuvenation is a very minor HPS increase but a large HPCT (efficiency) boost. For a better explanation than I can easily type out, see here (second graph).
Haste increases HPS linearly but has major efficiency increases as you pass a breakpoint. The additional throughput you are seeing is perhaps more a result of extremely fast RG casts in an environment unconstrained by mana worries. That should not be possible at 85 in the initial stages.
I've seen the link you posted before the patch hit (and I should add that is very enlightening to understand how HoTs or even DoTs scale with haste now). I guess my wording was incorrect and I was referring to the increased efficiency of the Rejuvenation itself. I attribute the additional throughput to a style of healing similar to before patch at lvl 80 since mana is not a concern and leaving the RG to a small fraction. Thus, a large fraction of the healing will be from Rejuvenation ticks and so if you have one more tick per Rej it will show in the overall numbers of throughput healing. At least that's the way I perceive it. This is of course, strictly speaking of lvl 80 and not 85, if I didn't make that clear.
Lifebloom: You want to keep this rolling on a tank at virtually all times. It is a strong, cheap HoT, has a very fast tick rate to help stabilize the tank, activates Symbiosis on all heals on the tank (including LB itself), and gives you frequent Revitalize procs. Due to a current bug, this cannot be cast using a normal mouseover macro, but this workaround produces the same effect:
I have no problems using the following mouseover macro for lifebloom:
First off, thank you very much Hamlet for making this excellent resto compendium, it is greatly appreciated.
About the shoulder and helm enchants. Here is the breakdown of stats from the differing enchants:
26 int / 20 spirit and 21 int / 16 spirit enchants
54.943 spellpower
824.145 mana
41.2073 mp5 from replenishment
2.23299 mp5 from spirit/int
0.330663 crit from int
0 crit from rating
30 SP / 20 crit and 24 SP / 15 crit enchants
54 spellpower
0 mana
0 mp5 from replenishment
0 mp5 from spirit/int
0 crit from int
0.762428 crit from rating
So is it really worth it to lose 0.943 SP, 824.145 mana, 43.439 mp5 to gain 0.431764 crit?
About glyphs. You don't seem to mention Glyph of Healing Touch. While the gain may seem small, it is still a gain in healing done(especially in oh snap moments). In a fight where you cast 25 Healing Touches it comes out to be a 2.0833 minute reduction(125 sec) on Nature's Swiftness which is 2/3 the cooldown. This cooldown reduction is very nice to have in fights where(especially in ICC) people can get very low and need a quick, large heal. Also not mentioned is Glyph of Dash, while admittedly it has very little effect on raiding, it does have some effect on some fights with high mobility across large areas. I find it more useful than our other options, which have no bearing whatsoever on raiding.
I'm being very nitpicky here but the haste soft cap is actually 1015 and not 1016 to get your Rejuvenation to tick 5.5+ times during it's duration, which is then rounded up to 6. And also worth mentioning is that the first 10 points of Intellect give no Spellpower, every point thereafter however, does.
As far as gems, the Insightful meta, with it giving 21 Spellpower instead of the 3% bonus to crit heals, is more throughput than the Revitalizing since in 4.0.1 most of our crits tend to be overhealing anyway(this may change come cata and increased health pools).
Lastly, as mentioned above normal Lifebloom mouseover macros do indeed work now. Also mentioned above, in terms of trinkets, Glowing Twilight Scale is better throughput than Heroic Solace in both Intellect/Spellpower and from the ability to use it during Tree of Life with instant cast Regrowths. So if mana is a non-issue for you and/or you have another resto to exchange innervates with this is by far the best throughput option, along with Althor's Abacus 277.
Sorry for the wall of text!
P.S. Small typo I noticed on Lifeblood cooldown from Herbalism, you accidently say it gives you 240 haste for 2sec instead of 20sec.
The assumption on the enchants is that our mana situation is irrelevant at 80, everyone's swapping Spirit for crit anyway.
Don't understand the value of glyph of HT. So if you HT 36 times in fight, 1 more of them gets to be NS'ed? How often do you use NS precisely on cooldown anyway?
Glyph of Dash is probably worth mentioning.
I think we've empirically verified that you need 1016 haste, we assumed it was some rounding going on somewhere.
Yeah, like people have been saying, Glowing Twilight Scale is probably quite good now.
It would likely be worthwhile to post the 'haste thresholds' where haste ends up giving more throughput by creating extra ticks so as to allow for aiming for specific thresholds for different rolls. IE, if a tree is tank healing, then thresholds for Regrowth and Lifebloom become more important than Rejuv thresholds. As well, listing the GCD haste threshold for 4.0.1 with and without a 5% haste buff.
The extra tick on Rejuvenation is a very minor HPS increase but a large HPCT (efficiency) boost. For a better explanation than I can easily type out, see here (second graph).
Haste increases HPS linearly but has major efficiency increases as you pass a breakpoint.
That graph shows the HPS of one Renew/Rejuve increasing linearly while your haste increases. Pretty much every break point allows you to get one more person covered in case of blanketing or just gives you a free GCD, if you want.
If I'm wrong, could someone point it to me please.
1015 haste rating / 32.79 rating per 1% = 30.9455593168649% haste
30.9455593168649 / 100 = 0.309455593168649 + 1 = 1.309455593168649
1.309455593168649 * 1.05(5% haste raid buff) = 1.37502287282708
1.37502287282708 - 1 = 0.37502287282708 * 100 = 37.502287282708% haste (37.5% being the breaking point)
3 sec RJ tick * 1.37502287282708 = 2.18178188834919 sec new hasted tick time
12 sec duration / 2.18178188834919 = 5.50009149130833 ticks (x.5 ticks being the breaking point to add a whole new tick to the duration)
5.50009149130833 rounds UP to 6 ticks with the new HoT system making this RJ a 5.50009149130833 * 6 = 13.0906913300951 sec duration HoT
To further emphasize my point that 1015 IS the true breaking point, here are the calculations at 1014 haste rating
1014 haste rating / 32.79 rating per 1% = 30.9240622140897% haste
30.9240622140897 / 100 = 0.309240622140897 + 1 = 1.309240622140897
1.309240622140897 * 1.05(5% haste raid buff) = 1.37470265324794
1.37470265324794 - 1 = 0.37470265324794 * 100 = 37.470265324794% haste (BELOW the 37.5% breaking point)
3 sec RJ tick * 1.37470265324794 = 2.18229010681841 sec new hasted tick time
12 sec duration / 2.18229010681841 = 5.49881061299176 ticks (BELOW the x.5 breaking point, thus NOT adding a whole new tick to the duration)
5.49881061299176 rounds DOWN to 5 ticks with the new HoT system making this RJ a 5.49881061299176 * 5 = 10.9114505340921 sec duration HoT
It's pretty obvious that the mana regeneration mechanics have changed significantly in 4.0.1. The "five second rule" seems to have gone completely out the window in favor of a "mana regeneration in combat" vs. "mana regeneration out of combat" model. Furthermore, I have a low level mage character with no gear at all, and she still regenerates a little bit of mana while in combat (she'd have regenerated 0 mana under the old 5-second-rule system).
Is there some place I can go to read up on the exact mechanics of how mana regeneration works in 4.0?
1015 haste rating / 32.79 rating per 1% = 30.9455593168649% haste
30.9455593168649 / 100 = 0.309455593168649 + 1 = 1.309455593168649
1.309455593168649 * 1.05(5% haste raid buff) = 1.37502287282708
1.37502287282708 - 1 = 0.37502287282708 * 100 = 37.502287282708% haste (37.5% being the breaking point)
3 sec RJ tick * 1.37502287282708 = 2.18178188834919 sec new hasted tick time
12 sec duration / 2.18178188834919 = 5.50009149130833 ticks (x.5 ticks being the breaking point to add a whole new tick to the duration)
5.50009149130833 rounds UP to 6 ticks with the new HoT system making this RJ a 5.50009149130833 * 6 = 13.0906913300951 sec duration HoT
To further emphasize my point that 1015 IS the true breaking point, here are the calculations at 1014 haste rating
1014 haste rating / 32.79 rating per 1% = 30.9240622140897% haste
30.9240622140897 / 100 = 0.309240622140897 + 1 = 1.309240622140897
1.309240622140897 * 1.05(5% haste raid buff) = 1.37470265324794
1.37470265324794 - 1 = 0.37470265324794 * 100 = 37.470265324794% haste (BELOW the 37.5% breaking point)
3 sec RJ tick * 1.37470265324794 = 2.18229010681841 sec new hasted tick time
12 sec duration / 2.18229010681841 = 5.49881061299176 ticks (BELOW the x.5 breaking point, thus NOT adding a whole new tick to the duration)
5.49881061299176 rounds DOWN to 5 ticks with the new HoT system making this RJ a 5.49881061299176 * 5 = 10.9114505340921 sec duration HoT
I hope this clears up some confusion.
I don't think there was any doubt that 1015 is the true breakpoint, but people kept finding that in-game you sometimes would not get a 6th tick even at 1015 haste with the 5% haste buff, but at 1016 the chance was near 100%. That's the only reason the guide recommends 1016. I keep hearing something about a rounding error, which I assume is meant as an in-game one, so there's nothing we can do about that. Best to just be safe and pick up 1016.
Since [Glowing Twilight Scale] was mentioned, I find it privy to point out that this trinket is probably only good if the direct healing portion of Rejuv from GotEM counts as a "direct heal," which I am not sure of. Someone pointed out to me that the old set bonus that did the same thing counted as a direct heal, in which case this trinket is probably BiS now. On the other hand, I can't test this because I don't know any other trinkets that proc off direct healing off the top of my head, and they aren't easy to search for.
I did some testing with a guild mate. He used the trinket and chaincasted reju on me. I didn't get the trinket-hot. Naturally it did work with regrowth. In other words: The initial tick, which is added to rejuvenation if you've skilled GotEM, is not a direct heal.
That graph shows the HPS of one Renew/Rejuve increasing linearly while your haste increases. Pretty much every break point allows you to get one more person covered in case of blanketing or just gives you a free GCD, if you want.
If I'm wrong, could someone point it to me please.
HPCT increases at a break point and you are correct that it may be possible to cover one additional person - that's part of the reason why we spent so much time discussing HPCT when the Glyph of RR came out. However, that effect only occurs at a break point and is the same increase each time meaning that the overall effect displays diminishing returns when compared to haste rating.
I did some testing with a guild mate. He used the trinket and chaincasted reju on me. I didn't get the trinket-hot. Naturally it did work with regrowth. In other words: The initial tick, which is added to rejuvenation if you've skilled GotEM, is not a direct heal.
I'm actually testing this right now with the Forethought Talisman and I can confirm your findings. Therefore, my only conclusion is that we should still pass on the Scale to other healers first, but shouldn't look at it as junk anymore.
10/19/10, 1:48 PM
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