Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10/20/10, 11:38 PM   #16
cuddlekin
Von Kaiser
 
cuddlekin's Avatar
 
Worgen Druid
 
Scilla
First off, thank you very much Hamlet for making this excellent resto compendium, it is greatly appreciated.

About the shoulder and helm enchants. Here is the breakdown of stats from the differing enchants:
26 int / 20 spirit and 21 int / 16 spirit enchants
54.943 spellpower
824.145 mana
41.2073 mp5 from replenishment
2.23299 mp5 from spirit/int
0.330663 crit from int
0 crit from rating

30 SP / 20 crit and 24 SP / 15 crit enchants
54 spellpower
0 mana
0 mp5 from replenishment
0 mp5 from spirit/int
0 crit from int
0.762428 crit from rating

So is it really worth it to lose 0.943 SP, 824.145 mana, 43.439 mp5 to gain 0.431764 crit?

About glyphs. You don't seem to mention Glyph of Healing Touch. While the gain may seem small, it is still a gain in healing done(especially in oh snap moments). In a fight where you cast 25 Healing Touches it comes out to be a 2.0833 minute reduction(125 sec) on Nature's Swiftness which is 2/3 the cooldown. This cooldown reduction is very nice to have in fights where(especially in ICC) people can get very low and need a quick, large heal. Also not mentioned is Glyph of Dash, while admittedly it has very little effect on raiding, it does have some effect on some fights with high mobility across large areas. I find it more useful than our other options, which have no bearing whatsoever on raiding.

I'm being very nitpicky here but the haste soft cap is actually 1015 and not 1016 to get your Rejuvenation to tick 5.5+ times during it's duration, which is then rounded up to 6. And also worth mentioning is that the first 10 points of Intellect give no Spellpower, every point thereafter however, does.

As far as gems, the Insightful meta, with it giving 21 Spellpower instead of the 3% bonus to crit heals, is more throughput than the Revitalizing since in 4.0.1 most of our crits tend to be overhealing anyway(this may change come cata and increased health pools).

Lastly, as mentioned above normal Lifebloom mouseover macros do indeed work now. Also mentioned above, in terms of trinkets, Glowing Twilight Scale is better throughput than Heroic Solace in both Intellect/Spellpower and from the ability to use it during Tree of Life with instant cast Regrowths. So if mana is a non-issue for you and/or you have another resto to exchange innervates with this is by far the best throughput option, along with Althor's Abacus 277.

Sorry for the wall of text!

P.S. Small typo I noticed on Lifeblood cooldown from Herbalism, you accidently say it gives you 240 haste for 2sec instead of 20sec.

Last edited by cuddlekin : 10/21/10 at 9:04 PM.


Offline
Old 10/21/10, 12:35 AM   #17
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
The assumption on the enchants is that our mana situation is irrelevant at 80, everyone's swapping Spirit for crit anyway.

Don't understand the value of glyph of HT. So if you HT 36 times in fight, 1 more of them gets to be NS'ed? How often do you use NS precisely on cooldown anyway?

Glyph of Dash is probably worth mentioning.

I think we've empirically verified that you need 1016 haste, we assumed it was some rounding going on somewhere.

Yeah, like people have been saying, Glowing Twilight Scale is probably quite good now.


United States Offline
Old 10/21/10, 1:21 AM   #18
agnos80
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Staghelm
It would likely be worthwhile to post the 'haste thresholds' where haste ends up giving more throughput by creating extra ticks so as to allow for aiming for specific thresholds for different rolls. IE, if a tree is tank healing, then thresholds for Regrowth and Lifebloom become more important than Rejuv thresholds. As well, listing the GCD haste threshold for 4.0.1 with and without a 5% haste buff.

Offline
Old 10/21/10, 1:35 AM   #19
oopsminded
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Neptulon (EU)
Originally Posted by Lightflower View Post
The extra tick on Rejuvenation is a very minor HPS increase but a large HPCT (efficiency) boost. For a better explanation than I can easily type out, see here (second graph).

Haste increases HPS linearly but has major efficiency increases as you pass a breakpoint.
That graph shows the HPS of one Renew/Rejuve increasing linearly while your haste increases. Pretty much every break point allows you to get one more person covered in case of blanketing or just gives you a free GCD, if you want.

If I'm wrong, could someone point it to me please.

Offline
Old 10/21/10, 5:04 PM   #20
cuddlekin
Von Kaiser
 
cuddlekin's Avatar
 
Worgen Druid
 
Scilla
1015 haste rating / 32.79 rating per 1% = 30.9455593168649% haste
30.9455593168649 / 100 = 0.309455593168649 + 1 = 1.309455593168649
1.309455593168649 * 1.05(5% haste raid buff) = 1.37502287282708
1.37502287282708 - 1 = 0.37502287282708 * 100 = 37.502287282708% haste (37.5% being the breaking point)
3 sec RJ tick * 1.37502287282708 = 2.18178188834919 sec new hasted tick time
12 sec duration / 2.18178188834919 = 5.50009149130833 ticks (x.5 ticks being the breaking point to add a whole new tick to the duration)
5.50009149130833 rounds UP to 6 ticks with the new HoT system making this RJ a 5.50009149130833 * 6 = 13.0906913300951 sec duration HoT

To further emphasize my point that 1015 IS the true breaking point, here are the calculations at 1014 haste rating
1014 haste rating / 32.79 rating per 1% = 30.9240622140897% haste
30.9240622140897 / 100 = 0.309240622140897 + 1 = 1.309240622140897
1.309240622140897 * 1.05(5% haste raid buff) = 1.37470265324794
1.37470265324794 - 1 = 0.37470265324794 * 100 = 37.470265324794% haste (BELOW the 37.5% breaking point)
3 sec RJ tick * 1.37470265324794 = 2.18229010681841 sec new hasted tick time
12 sec duration / 2.18229010681841 = 5.49881061299176 ticks (BELOW the x.5 breaking point, thus NOT adding a whole new tick to the duration)
5.49881061299176 rounds DOWN to 5 ticks with the new HoT system making this RJ a 5.49881061299176 * 5 = 10.9114505340921 sec duration HoT

I hope this clears up some confusion.


Offline
Old 10/21/10, 5:18 PM   #21
tracer
Glass Joe
 
Troll Warrior
 
Ysera
Speaking of Spirit:

It's pretty obvious that the mana regeneration mechanics have changed significantly in 4.0.1. The "five second rule" seems to have gone completely out the window in favor of a "mana regeneration in combat" vs. "mana regeneration out of combat" model. Furthermore, I have a low level mage character with no gear at all, and she still regenerates a little bit of mana while in combat (she'd have regenerated 0 mana under the old 5-second-rule system).

Is there some place I can go to read up on the exact mechanics of how mana regeneration works in 4.0?

Offline
Old 10/21/10, 5:25 PM   #22
 RobotChicken
Piston Honda
 
RobotChicken's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Moon Guard
Originally Posted by cuddlekin View Post
1015 haste rating / 32.79 rating per 1% = 30.9455593168649% haste
30.9455593168649 / 100 = 0.309455593168649 + 1 = 1.309455593168649
1.309455593168649 * 1.05(5% haste raid buff) = 1.37502287282708
1.37502287282708 - 1 = 0.37502287282708 * 100 = 37.502287282708% haste (37.5% being the breaking point)
3 sec RJ tick * 1.37502287282708 = 2.18178188834919 sec new hasted tick time
12 sec duration / 2.18178188834919 = 5.50009149130833 ticks (x.5 ticks being the breaking point to add a whole new tick to the duration)
5.50009149130833 rounds UP to 6 ticks with the new HoT system making this RJ a 5.50009149130833 * 6 = 13.0906913300951 sec duration HoT

To further emphasize my point that 1015 IS the true breaking point, here are the calculations at 1014 haste rating
1014 haste rating / 32.79 rating per 1% = 30.9240622140897% haste
30.9240622140897 / 100 = 0.309240622140897 + 1 = 1.309240622140897
1.309240622140897 * 1.05(5% haste raid buff) = 1.37470265324794
1.37470265324794 - 1 = 0.37470265324794 * 100 = 37.470265324794% haste (BELOW the 37.5% breaking point)
3 sec RJ tick * 1.37470265324794 = 2.18229010681841 sec new hasted tick time
12 sec duration / 2.18229010681841 = 5.49881061299176 ticks (BELOW the x.5 breaking point, thus NOT adding a whole new tick to the duration)
5.49881061299176 rounds DOWN to 5 ticks with the new HoT system making this RJ a 5.49881061299176 * 5 = 10.9114505340921 sec duration HoT

I hope this clears up some confusion.
I don't think there was any doubt that 1015 is the true breakpoint, but people kept finding that in-game you sometimes would not get a 6th tick even at 1015 haste with the 5% haste buff, but at 1016 the chance was near 100%. That's the only reason the guide recommends 1016. I keep hearing something about a rounding error, which I assume is meant as an in-game one, so there's nothing we can do about that. Best to just be safe and pick up 1016.

United States Offline
Old 10/21/10, 5:28 PM   #23
Albel
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Druid
 
Onyxia (EU)
Originally Posted by RobotChicken View Post
Since [Glowing Twilight Scale] was mentioned, I find it privy to point out that this trinket is probably only good if the direct healing portion of Rejuv from GotEM counts as a "direct heal," which I am not sure of. Someone pointed out to me that the old set bonus that did the same thing counted as a direct heal, in which case this trinket is probably BiS now. On the other hand, I can't test this because I don't know any other trinkets that proc off direct healing off the top of my head, and they aren't easy to search for.
I did some testing with a guild mate. He used the trinket and chaincasted reju on me. I didn't get the trinket-hot. Naturally it did work with regrowth. In other words: The initial tick, which is added to rejuvenation if you've skilled GotEM, is not a direct heal.

Germany Offline
Old 10/21/10, 5:34 PM   #24
Lightflower
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dath'Remar
Originally Posted by oopsminded View Post
That graph shows the HPS of one Renew/Rejuve increasing linearly while your haste increases. Pretty much every break point allows you to get one more person covered in case of blanketing or just gives you a free GCD, if you want.

If I'm wrong, could someone point it to me please.
HPCT increases at a break point and you are correct that it may be possible to cover one additional person - that's part of the reason why we spent so much time discussing HPCT when the Glyph of RR came out. However, that effect only occurs at a break point and is the same increase each time meaning that the overall effect displays diminishing returns when compared to haste rating.

Offline
Old 10/21/10, 5:37 PM   #25
 RobotChicken
Piston Honda
 
RobotChicken's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Moon Guard
Originally Posted by Albel View Post
I did some testing with a guild mate. He used the trinket and chaincasted reju on me. I didn't get the trinket-hot. Naturally it did work with regrowth. In other words: The initial tick, which is added to rejuvenation if you've skilled GotEM, is not a direct heal.
I'm actually testing this right now with the Forethought Talisman and I can confirm your findings. Therefore, my only conclusion is that we should still pass on the Scale to other healers first, but shouldn't look at it as junk anymore.

United States Offline
Old 10/21/10, 6:47 PM   #26
cuddlekin
Von Kaiser
 
cuddlekin's Avatar
 
Worgen Druid
 
Scilla
Originally Posted by RobotChicken View Post
I don't think there was any doubt that 1015 is the true breakpoint, but people kept finding that in-game you sometimes would not get a 6th tick even at 1015 haste with the 5% haste buff, but at 1016 the chance was near 100%. That's the only reason the guide recommends 1016. I keep hearing something about a rounding error, which I assume is meant as an in-game one, so there's nothing we can do about that. Best to just be safe and pick up 1016.
oh okies, my bad then! hadn't heard that so thank you. damn you blizzard! get your own math right :<


Offline
Old 10/22/10, 6:38 AM   #27
Zhee, EU
Glass Joe
 
Zhee, EU's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kilrogg (EU)
Thank you Hamlet, for a long awaited OP of the Tree healing.

However, reading through it I stumbled over this:

Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post

Engineering gives 27 spellpower to cloak and Hyperspeed Accelerators to gloves, that latter being largely useless for us.
I wonder why you deem the added 240 Haste (every one minute) largely useless, seeing as Haste is a top 3 priority?

The cooldown is ridicullously short, so with a proper spamming and a little planning you'll be at max Haste nearly all the time. Taking the fact that the Engineering gadget adds with an ordinary Enchant, I'd say its a great bonus.

It also gives a bit more flexibility when you look to Reforge, you dont have to be at the magic 1016, since you will hit it every 1 minute.

(Ok you shouldn't take Engineering just for the sake of this one bonus, but saying it is largely useless is a shame).

Or did I miss something completely?
<3

Offline
Old 10/22/10, 8:11 AM   #28
Kluian
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by RobotChicken View Post
I'm actually testing this right now with the Forethought Talisman and I can confirm your findings. Therefore, my only conclusion is that we should still pass on the Scale to other healers first, but shouldn't look at it as junk anymore.
It's just as good for a druid as other healers. Considering it is the highest INT trinket available to us, I also produce roughly the same healing from the proc as a shaman and holy priest in our guild. All it takes is a few regrowths when using the proc and you'll get the same effect as any other healer.

Offline
Old 10/22/10, 8:21 AM   #29
Gasillio
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
I have a question about Tree of Life form. In a situation with a spike of raid damage (example: transition phase of Lich King heroic), is it worth it to use the buffed Lifebloom by attempting to blanket the raid or just use the instant-Regrowth to heal all who get low? I was using Wild Growth on cooldown, too, because it is buffed as well. But it still has a cooldown, and I'm wondering what to do for the rest of the time.

Offline
Old 10/22/10, 11:10 AM   #30
 RobotChicken
Piston Honda
 
RobotChicken's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Moon Guard
Originally Posted by Gasillio View Post
I have a question about Tree of Life form. In a situation with a spike of raid damage (example: transition phase of Lich King heroic), is it worth it to use the buffed Lifebloom by attempting to blanket the raid or just use the instant-Regrowth to heal all who get low? I was using Wild Growth on cooldown, too, because it is buffed as well. But it still has a cooldown, and I'm wondering what to do for the rest of the time.
I believe the idea is to continue to just use Rejuvs, and if someone takes a spike of damage just use Regrowth on them. Spreading Lifeblooms across the raid isn't a huge help, I don't think, but stacking it on your tanks can't hurt.

United States Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Shaman] Resto PvP MissnL1nK Player vs. Player 89 08/02/10 6:41 PM
[Horde][Malfurion]<Promethean> 11/12 HM-ICC25 LF Melee DPS, Resto Druid, Resto Shaman Amiye /LFGuild 0 04/06/10 10:47 AM
[Resto] 3.1 PTR changes and testing Philondra Shamans 318 04/21/09 5:43 PM
[2v2] Rogue + Resto Druid vs. Warrior + Resto Druid Reubarb Player vs. Player 14 10/07/07 5:47 AM