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Old 12/31/10, 4:36 PM   #136
nesf
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warlock
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Cyrax_AdS View Post
If i take theses numbers and put them into wowhead, the result is : Items - World of Warcraft

From what i see, the "best" tanking armor pre-25/10heroic is the Vicious one. (PvP)

The epic PvP armor seems to have the best stats in agi/sta and last stat reforged to dodge, it sounds really great.

Am i the only one suprised that the near-best tanking armor is the PvP one ?

Also, i did some heroic with my bear in full blue PvP armor, and really no problem to finish even the difficult ones.
PvP armor is decent because of the slightly higher ilvl for a given tier than the PvE equivalent piece making it better in many cases (but not all!) but you lose so much itemisation to Resilience which is now completely useless for bears that they'll only ever be a stopgap on the way to better gear and never BiS.

That said, the PvP blues especially are very easy to get and make good pre-raid pieces for slots you're having trouble getting drops for.

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Old 01/01/11, 3:27 AM   #137
evilsquirrel
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Llane
Expertise Question

Alright I just want this answered once and for all. I have heard many diff things from many diff people but now a days when tanking what is most of your expertise at. Mine is currently at 26 as I thought that is what we HAD to have it at, so I have messed with reforging, etc, etc to maintain that 26. Now I have heard from others I could go as low as 20 and still be ok. Just wanted to know what others insights were on that.

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Old 01/01/11, 3:28 AM   #138
Astrylian
Rawr
 
Astrylian's Avatar
 
Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
I MT with 10 expertise. I'd happily trade that 320exp rating for 320 dodge rating (or even better, 320agi) in a heartbeat. You don't need any exp at all, it's just 'nice to have'.

Rawr!

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Old 01/01/11, 11:51 AM   #139
Rhy
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by evilsquirrel View Post
Alright I just want this answered once and for all. I have heard many diff things from many diff people but now a days when tanking what is most of your expertise at. Mine is currently at 26 as I thought that is what we HAD to have it at, so I have messed with reforging, etc, etc to maintain that 26. Now I have heard from others I could go as low as 20 and still be ok. Just wanted to know what others insights were on that.
I currently have 0 exp rating on my gear. And I am doing just fine. The only problem you might have threat wise is right on the pull. And to counter that you have Berserk. That's all you really need to stay ahead of the dps. Sure, the extra expertise will help smooth out the rotation and slightly increase the SD uptime, however it's quite hard to do this in the current tier. You will simply lose too much survivability.

As for the 4pT11... I got a bit lucky with the TB drops and already have the 4 pieces. Yes, there are a lot better itemised off-set pieces ([Tsanga's Helm], [Poison Protocol Pauldrons], [Sark of the Unwatched], [Double Attack Handguards]) but with reforging I am not sure it's worth using those over the set items.
The problem is that all the encounters on normal are so easy, that none of them really pushes the tank survivability to the limit. They are not even getting close. Sure, for all those encounters I'd wear off-set items and put agility gems and enchants to make our healer's job even easier. However, I'd never go with agility gems/enchants or without the 4pT11 to a heroic encounter. So far I have only done Halfus, but damn, that is one crazy fight. The tank damage (especially on the tank taking two of the drakes at the same time) is really insane. And I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the heroic content proves just as difficult. And maybe the biggest clue for this is the fact that the majority of the tanks in the top guilds are using survivability oriented gems and enchants (stamina) instead of mitigation ones (avoidance).

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Old 01/01/11, 4:03 PM   #140
tangedyn
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Thaurissan
Originally Posted by MatsT View Post
The spreadsheets both assume a constant special every 1.5 sec and maul every 3 sec. While this is possible in theory it does not appear to be happening in any of the logs I looked at. The ratio of specials to white attacks in the spreadsheet is a lot higher than in reality and this inflates the value of Expertise. Using actual log ratios crit comes out ahead, though by such a small amount that expertise might still be a better stat.
Fair point. I will add a latency factor to my spreadsheet and see how that works out. In any case expertise will probably still be the preferred stat over crit if the mitigation loss is minor, simply because as a threat stat it is at least 3x better.

Another problem with the SD model is that it only appears to be taking into account one dodge before the hit. There is a small chance that you will procc SD, dodge 2-3 attacks and therefore still have it up for the hit that isn't accounted for. I can not post on the US forums in Fasc's thread so I thought I'd mention it here. The difference is quite small, but it's not hard to fix assuming you are satisfied with accounting for 3 or so dodges. An entirely correct model using Boss Swing speed and Savage Defense duration is somewhat harder but could be calculated using an iterative approach.
I was quite sure that formula takes into account >1 previous dodge, although it wasn't described by Anothriel as doing so. I've tested the formula with Monte Carlo simulations and the results seem correct, but I'll need to check in more detail. There are other issues with the SD formula's assumptions I've highlighted in the thread, but they are pretty minor. I'm not too keen on Anothriel's 'sim-within-a-spreadseet' solution, because eventually I want to port the whole spreadsheet into a Mew formulation (which is supposed to be fast).


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Old 01/01/11, 4:56 PM   #141
Lörn
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Icecrown
My current trinket setup is Key to the Endless Chamber (heroic), Skardyn's Grace (heroic) and I'm wondering if replacing one of these with Leaden Despair (I currently only have the normal version) would be a good choice? Edit: I also have Porcelain Crab (heroic), but I'm fairly certain that sticking with the agility will be better.
Also, on Rawr, Heroic Skardyn's Grace is showing as being rated lower than the normal version. The tooltip for it doesn't seem to be showing the 20s/2m cooldown.

By the way, I don't know how to post links to items. New to actually posting on the forums. Sorry.

Edit: I probably should've included this in my post - I haven't gotten into raids yet, my guild will be starting 10 mans soon. So just doing daily heroics for now.

Last edited by Lörn : 01/01/11 at 5:52 PM.

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Old 01/02/11, 8:40 PM   #142
Kintoun
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Lörn View Post
My current trinket setup is Key to the Endless Chamber (heroic), Skardyn's Grace (heroic) and I'm wondering if replacing one of these with Leaden Despair (I currently only have the normal version) would be a good choice? Edit: I also have Porcelain Crab (heroic), but I'm fairly certain that sticking with the agility will be better.
Also, on Rawr, Heroic Skardyn's Grace is showing as being rated lower than the normal version. The tooltip for it doesn't seem to be showing the 20s/2m cooldown.

By the way, I don't know how to post links to items. New to actually posting on the forums. Sorry.

Edit: I probably should've included this in my post - I haven't gotten into raids yet, my guild will be starting 10 mans soon. So just doing daily heroics for now.
As the poster above stated, stamina is only needed for heroic raid content. Stick with AGI for gems and trinkets and dodge for reforging. Tanks just don't get 2 shot anymore. For 5 mans try and keep some kind of expertise set around otherwise group pulls can get really hectic. I just swap in trinkets.

Rawr is pretty messed up still for trinkets. They're fixing them, just really slowly.

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Old 01/02/11, 8:45 PM   #143
Astrylian
Rawr
 
Astrylian's Avatar
 
Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Kintoun View Post
Rawr is pretty messed up still for trinkets. They're fixing them, just really slowly.
This is no longer true. Almost all trinkets are modeled properly in Rawr now. You might have an old version of the item cache, so use Options > Reset All Caches to get the latest version.

Rawr!

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Old 01/02/11, 11:48 PM   #144
Lörn
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Icecrown
Originally Posted by Kintoun View Post
As the poster above stated, stamina is only needed for heroic raid content. Stick with AGI for gems and trinkets and dodge for reforging.
I've reforged everything properly, I believe. Almost all my gems are Agility (I still have a few Stamina gems in there.) But since I'm starting to figure out Rawr now, it's telling me to gem almost completely for Stamina. Why is that?

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Old 01/03/11, 5:37 AM   #145
Ocho
Glass Joe
 
Ocho
Tauren Druid
 
Non-US/EU Server (EU)
Did you look at the buffs tab? Fill everything out, and rawr should tell you to gem agi in most cases or agi/stam. Its pretty hard to get below the survival soft cap of 450k once you're kitted out in a few bits of 359. Rawr only seems to suggest stamina if you're starting to get too near the soft cap.

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Old 01/03/11, 1:19 PM   #146
Lörn
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Icecrown
Yes, I've buffed myself with everything I typically have in a guild 10 man.

I'm quite far off the 450k survival soft cap. I'm at just over 400k, but with over 570k mitigation. Is this normal?

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Old 01/03/11, 2:24 PM   #147
Garanthir
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eldre'Thalas
Originally Posted by Lörn View Post
Yes, I've buffed myself with everything I typically have in a guild 10 man.

I'm quite far off the 450k survival soft cap. I'm at just over 400k, but with over 570k mitigation. Is this normal?
Use Rawr to improve your gems and enchants. You're missing some pretty important enchants (staff enchant, head enchant) and using sub-par gems/enchants in other slots. Using Rawr I was able to get you to 450k pretty easily.

I know you stated you did, but double check your buffs again, Demo Roar, Priest Inspiration, etc will make a large difference.

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Old 01/03/11, 2:54 PM   #148
Lörn
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Icecrown
Looks like I found the problem! I wasn't including Priest Inspiration since it isn't a 100% uptime buff. (You could argue that the others aren't either, but if, for example, a Shaman was refreshing their Stoneskin totem appropriately, then it is a 100% uptime buff.)

Thanks.

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Old 01/03/11, 3:36 PM   #149
Blakhoof
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sentinels
Currently I"m using "Austere Shadowspirit Diamond" (81 stam, 2% armor) as a meta but am wondering if the +2% magic damage reduction one would be better, has anyone modeled each to see what's better all around.

It would seem I'm taking a lot of damage when it comes to magic based attacks.

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Old 01/03/11, 5:35 PM   #150
Ocho
Glass Joe
 
Ocho
Tauren Druid
 
Non-US/EU Server (EU)
I'd think there'd be a lot more physical than magical damage overall. I think 60% of the damage is physical at most on the tank or something like that. Just a guess. Besides we now have perseverance if you need it.

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