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Old 01/06/11, 1:30 PM   #181
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Talanik View Post
I'm not sure I understand this. Could you elaborate some? Higher tiers of gear will have more +hit and more +expertise across the board, so even without reforging/gemming/enchanting/gearing for it, the few pieces of gear with it will count a lot more at Tier 13 than it does now at Tier 11.
Blizzard talked about that they want to give bosses avoidance in later tiers so that they scale with gear.

With that said, it depends on how they implement it. If they only increase dodge and parry, then interrupt won't be an issue since mobs nor players can dodge/parry while casting. If they also allow bosses to be missed more often, then this will be a concern.

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Old 01/07/11, 9:36 AM   #182
Falling
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Krag'jin (EU)
Originally Posted by InorganicMatter View Post
That I believe seems to be the intention: Blizzard is trying to make it clear that interrupting is solely a DPS task. It seems a shame that they gave all tanking classes a short-cooldown interrupt if the interrupt is unreliable without making large survivability sacrifices (at least in this tier). We will have more gear itemization points in later tiers, so perhaps we will see tanks capping these stats and helping with interrupts then, but for now it seems tanks helping with an interrupt rotation is no more.
I can not agree with you here, at least in 10-man it's pretty much impossible to go without at least one tank being able to reliably interrupt. Yesterday we did 10 man TB with a caster setup having only the DK tank and the Feral tank as 10s interrupters. We wiped two times on Council since tank-interrupts missed.
Cho'gall pretty much relies on the add-tank interrupt as well (along with another melee). Nef is even worse. I can hardly imagine a 10 man Nef raid using three! melee-dps along with two tanks.
I've never seen Nef HM but I'm pretty sure you're cake there if even one Blast Nova will go through.

I don't understand Blizz here. I can understand that it's a design thing that cats should go for the hit cap to reliably being able to interrupt. But tanks? Yesterday I reforged almost everything to hit for the 10 man.

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Old 01/07/11, 4:16 PM   #183
Raconzor
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Icecrown
Just a note re: missing interrupts. While casting, your target cannot dodge, parry, or block - so only the hit cap itself needs to be considered, not any expertise caps. I think as other posters have said, this really ought to be a dps responsibility. All melee now have a 10 second cd interrupt, though it is true that kitties and some DKs will not be hit capped either.

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Old 01/08/11, 7:48 PM   #184
Natureshero
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Druid
 
Frostmourne
I really don't understand why hit is being so neglected... While I admit I have not started upgrading to raid gear seeing I can't get members online to run my raids (mass recruit inc) but I've not found it hard to hit cap while still having good mitigation. and I really can't understand why any tank would want to neglect the hit cap. Sure taunts don't miss now but instead we have an interrupt that can and who wants their interrupt to miss? There are 2 reasons I will always aspire to be as close to the hit cap as possible.

1. I know for a fact that the spell is being interrupted, even if you have a dps to interrupt you still may need a clutch skull bash.

2. It frees up more dps, who doesn't want a boss to die faster?

I know that threat is currently not an issue but threat was never the only reason to be hit capped.

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Old 01/08/11, 9:34 PM   #185
Astrylian
Rawr
 
Astrylian's Avatar
 
Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Natureshero View Post
I really don't understand why hit is being so neglected... While I admit I have not started upgrading to raid gear seeing I can't get members online to run my raids (mass recruit inc) but I've not found it hard to hit cap while still having good mitigation. and I really can't understand why any tank would want to neglect the hit cap. Sure taunts don't miss now but instead we have an interrupt that can and who wants their interrupt to miss? There are 2 reasons I will always aspire to be as close to the hit cap as possible.

1. I know for a fact that the spell is being interrupted, even if you have a dps to interrupt you still may need a clutch skull bash.

2. It frees up more dps, who doesn't want a boss to die faster?

I know that threat is currently not an issue but threat was never the only reason to be hit capped.
Being able to survive is much more important. You should focus on tanking first, and build a hit-capped set on the side for the (should be) rare occasion that you need to be relied upon to interrupt.

Rawr!

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Old 01/08/11, 9:43 PM   #186
kalbear
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
Also, in the past hit was important for taunting, which was traditionally a crucially useful tanking ability on multiple fights. Similarly, expertise was valuable partially for threat but also because it removed parries, which caused more damage (and more bursty damage) on the tank.

Neither of those things are true any more. With threat not being an issue, taunting not being an issue and parry haste not being an issue, the only reason to gain more hit is because your survival is already fine and you might as well do more damage. But as a tank, that should be a secondary priority at best.

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Old 01/08/11, 10:32 PM   #187
Natureshero
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Druid
 
Frostmourne
I can see where you are coming from but I frequently find myself doing it anyway and I actually consider it to be increasing my chances of survival, but I guess not everyone looks at it in the same light.

edit: afterall I can't dodge a fireball but a can definitely interrupt it if I have too

Last edited by Natureshero : 01/08/11 at 10:52 PM.

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Old 01/09/11, 6:08 AM   #188
Vaccine
Mr. Sandman
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Natureshero View Post
I can see where you are coming from but I frequently find myself doing it anyway and I actually consider it to be increasing my chances of survival, but I guess not everyone looks at it in the same light.

edit: afterall I can't dodge a fireball but a can definitely interrupt it if I have too
On content that matters though, why wouldn't you put hit capped DPSers on interrupting whilst you focus on survivability? Sure whilst Skull Bash couldn't miss we were great for interrupts, especially in 10 man where interrupts can be limited in certain composistions, but now it can there are far better options than making your tank cap hit for interrupts.

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Old 01/09/11, 7:00 PM   #189
Natureshero
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Druid
 
Frostmourne
Yeah I see where you are coming from, I guess I'm still a little bit in the old mindset.

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Old 01/10/11, 3:17 AM   #190
Thror
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Druid
 
Drak'thul (EU)
I am not sure if anyone is interested in 10-men talk in this thread, since it seems rather 25m-centric... but for me personally, Hit has recently become one of the most crucial stats. You probably do have a sufficient amount of hit capped melee in 25 mens, but in 10 mens the lack of a hit cap on a tank is huge. It is extremely common that I am the only melee character on Feludius, for example. I am theoretically able to interrupt every single Hydro Lance, but since i am not hit capped, they do slip through sometimes. There are a few more encounters where a reliable interrupt is equally important... Maloriak, and Cho'gall come to mind. Stacking Hit up to the cap has become more attractive than Crit and Mastery, to me.

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Old 01/10/11, 4:27 AM   #191
Vaccine
Mr. Sandman
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Well that is frankly a silly idea. If you really have to interrupt, keep some off pieces with hit on or just use two trinkets with it on. Building it into your base set when on the majority of fights it is providing you with zero use is just wasting stat points that would be better served elsewhere.

Also it sounds like a composition issue that you're gimping yourself to overcome. Do you run with no melee? On all those fights you only really need two melee interrupters to handle it, and on Council only one. For Nefarian you'll need 3 but having your tanks double up on one add is fine. If you really have to be the only one on Felidius the tank damage on Council is pretty low anyway, just throw on your hit trinkets and you'll be fine.

Is silly better? Yes I do believe points not spent in survivability are wasted. Threat is a joke right now and other than the first few seconds of a fight no DPS will ever catch you unless you're doing something horribly wrong.

Even if we believe that you have 0-1 melee DPS in your raids as interrupters it still doesn't change the fact that you would only need to be hit capped on 4/12 encounters yet you're letting a near useless stat when not interrupting be on your gear in the other 7 encounters. Don't get me wrong, I have 3 pieces I can swap to be hit capped should the need arise, I just don't see the reason to have it on your standard gear. This issue will only be exasperated further if you intend to go onto Heroics where every point of survivability is going to matter. I'm sorry that you got offended that you weren't immediately praised as the paragon of Druid 10 man raiding but your whole premise to begin with is based around a bad composition 10 man where you're forcing your tank to forego survivability stats in favour of hit. Whilst it might be necessary in extreme situations I don't think anyone should be suggesting it as the normal for 10 man gearing.

There is no higher importance on hit in 10's or in 25's. In both, the interrupter assigned should be hit capped. The question was with the point that you're assigning one or both of your tanks as the primary interrupter and forcing their survivability down in exchange for hit.

Last edited by Narcosleepy : 01/10/11 at 10:15 AM.

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Old 01/10/11, 10:36 AM   #192
 Polynices
What does Von Kaiser mean?
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Vaccine View Post
keep some off pieces with hit on or just use two trinkets with it on
This is the really important part that needs emphasizing. If you're serious enough about playing a feral druid to come to EJ in the first place, you should be serious enough to carry a few extra pieces of gear around that you can swap in for interrupt-heavy fights. That applies to cat as much as bear (even if this is the bear thread). Heck, any remotely competent druid carries multiple gearsets anyway and has some mod or other for switching back and forth. So it really is a no-brainer.

Carry high hit items. Only wear them as needed.

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Old 01/10/11, 11:43 AM   #193
Beanna
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Conseil des Ombres (EU)
About kitty gear, I found myself tanking Chimaeron far better than our official bear yesterday and I was wondering about the power of mastery and absorb in this specific fight.
My gear is full Agi/Mastery cause I'm primarily kitty spec'd and every healer of the raid confirmed I was taking far less damages on double-hit attacks and was very easy to keep alive.
Any thought about mastery in this encounter for a bear ? Or maybe it's only depending on dodge and agi ?

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Old 01/10/11, 5:05 PM   #194
Barrar
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Zul'Jin
RAWR 4.0.15.0b Results

I have been playing around with RAWR to adjust my gear as I received upgrades. At present when performing an optimization using an "Overall Rating" it highly suggests shoving stam in every socket except to activate the meta. Now I have followed along with the discussion and used RAWR MANY times in the past for my Enhancement Shaman so I understand the workings of it. I only received suggestions for gemming with stam/agil, agil, agil/dodge if I let it use heroic raid gear which I currently do not have. Settings were left at default with included Normal T11 Raiding with a survival soft cap of 450k as well as raid buffs.

This contradicts everything we have been discussing along with Astrylian's suggestion so I was looking to find out if there is a current bug in RAWR or if it is truly suggesting correctly now.

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Old 01/10/11, 6:08 PM   #195
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
It almost certainly means something is wrong with how you're configuring it. If you open an issue and attach your character, we can tell you more, but things to check first are buffs (fully buffed, correct consumables), talents (just to be sure), options (target damage and survival softcap). Also make sure that there are actually mitigation enchants/gems/gear available for it to use.

Rawr!

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