[Feral-Bear] Cataclysm Release - Page 2

HashBrownJM · 12/10/10, 7:23 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but does the gem stacking for Pre-Tier 11 raid essentially look like a stam stack, like in Wrath? I ask because the "bear guide" on MMO definitely suggests stacking expertise gems prior to stamina.

Also, the discussion is raging on back there about dodge vs. agility. Are the added bonuses of agility worth the slight dodge loss?

In regards to a weapon enchant, they suggest Landslide while y'all suggest an agility enchant. Does Windwalk not have a place in anyone's arsenal?

Makapuu · 12/11/10, 7:57 AM

On the gear list you state it insist on sot parry cap which I assuming to be 6.5% to remove dodge, yet none of the gear has any expertise, no reforge to expertise or any expertise at all really. It is a 0 expertise set.

Why insist on Parry soft cap and have 0 expertise? What am I missing?

eduh · 12/11/10, 12:02 PM

So im wondering what the armor numbers look like on your bears, right now im at 10250 caster form, and 29990 in bear form with 330 average itemlevel.
Before i repseced i was way above 35k+ armor with over 60% damage reduction :/
Was it bugged before? or is there a problem now?

Marauding Master · 12/12/10, 7:29 AM

Originally Posted by Erdluf

Finwe,

With Hinalover's numbers coming from Rawr, I'd assume his score is a combination of threat, mitigation, and survival.

Your Dodge/Armor numbers may be correct for Mitigation (defined roughly as what % of raw incoming damage do I end up taking), but I believe Dodge has no value at all for Rawr's Survival number (defined roughly as how long will I live with no healing, and RNG going entirely against me).

Just looking at Rawr's RSV for a naked bear, I see Stamina contributes only to Survival, and Dodge contributes only to Mitigation. Armor contributes to both Mitigation and Survival, and that helps explain its high ranking in Hinalover's list.

Following this assumption, wouldn't [Heart of Thunder] be a good contender next to [Leaden Despair] because it provides both static mitigation and an optional cooldown for survival, albeit a small one?

Vaccine · 12/12/10, 7:56 AM

Spotted an error, in the OP list it suggests reforging haste to dodge on Boots of the Predator, but they only have hit/crit.

Szynszyla · 12/12/10, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Marauding Master

Following this assumption, wouldn't [Heart of Thunder] be a good contender next to [Leaden Despair] because it provides both static mitigation and an optional cooldown for survival, albeit a small one?

I'd assume that old [Unidentifiable Organ] is also BiS for those who obtained the item before cataclysm, since we value armor so high, even the old glove enchant with armor at the moment looks about 4 times better.

The stcking stamina with so huge amount of armor is a great bonus along, but i noticed that it barely stacks on mobs 85+, even on huge aoe packs. Might be unlucky but it would require more testing.

MatsT · 12/13/10, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Marauding Master

Following this assumption, wouldn't [Heart of Thunder] be a good contender next to [Leaden Despair] because it provides both static mitigation and an optional cooldown for survival, albeit a small one?

Since trinkets by default have 0 armor all the armor on trinkets counts as "Bonus Armor" rather than just "Armor". Basically this means it doesn't get increased by Bear Form causing it to have a much lower value and thus [Heart of Thunder] loses out to stamina trinkets. [Unidentifiable Organ] might still be ok since it seems they chose not to to nerf trinkets in the general bonus armor shaft that occured.

Frnit · 12/13/10, 1:11 PM

Wouldn't [Morrie's Waywalker Wrap] rate higher than [Assassin's Chestplate] ?
With pre-raid ratings, comparison shows them almost equal but doesn't seem to count in 2 sockets from [Morrie's Waywalker Wrap].

kalbear · 12/13/10, 2:56 PM

Since trinkets by default have 0 armor all the armor on trinkets counts as "Bonus Armor" rather than just "Armor". Basically this means it doesn't get increased by Bear Form causing it to have a much lower value and thus [Heart of Thunder] loses out to stamina trinkets. [Unidentifiable Organ] might still be ok since it seems they chose not to to nerf trinkets in the general bonus armor shaft that occured.

While it doesn't get multplied 2000 armor is still a large amount of mitigation. Given the importance of actually reducing damage instead of soaking it both UO and [Glyph of Indomitability]have good value going forward. I expect them to be nerfed.

daemitus · 12/13/10, 3:17 PM

Now while I've only stepped into 10man raids a handful of times so far, I'm curious as to why we favor stamina so much, since bosses don't hit for half our hp anymore. Considering that mana is more the limiting factor, wouldnt dodge/mitigation be king instead of stamina for gems?

My RL and I went back and forth on this, his arguments seem quite solid.

skeldi · 12/13/10, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by daemitus

Now while I've only stepped into 10man raids a handful of times so far, I'm curious as to why we favor stamina so much, since bosses don't hit for half our hp anymore. Considering that mana is more the limiting factor, wouldnt dodge/mitigation be king instead of stamina for gems?

My RL and I went back and forth on this, his arguments seem quite solid.

more stam = larger possible vengeance = larger absorb from mastery = greater possible mitigation?

That's the theory at least. Would still need to run the actual math.

Hoofhearted · 12/13/10, 6:30 PM

It's possible that hardmode raids will favor stamina, but for all normal raids currently you should gem agility.
If vengeance is always maxed which it never is, 60 stamina will give you a bit over 100 attackpower. 40 agility gives you 100 no matter how hard you are being hit plus the other benefits of agility. The only argument for stamina is not being gibbed and that isn't happening this week.

bbies1973 · 12/13/10, 10:05 PM

One concern with the pre-heroic gear list: it lists crafted items that require heroic drops as materials to make. Certainly the AH is an option, however at this point in the game, that's only if you're filthy rich and at least half of your server is geared beyond needing them for themselves, their guildmates, or alts.

For some reason, I am unable to get Rawr4 to load a character. Would it be possible to list the next best items that don't require Chaos Orbs?

Also, I notice no boot enchants?
Based on the relative stat values in the OP I would go with Heavy Savage Armor Kit for 44 STA?

Helistar · 12/14/10, 6:23 AM

Originally Posted by skeldi

more stam = larger possible vengeance = larger absorb from mastery = greater possible mitigation?

If this were the case then mastery would be a good stat. After the nerf, it clearly isn't, when talking about TTL. BTW it would be good to provide some information on how those coefficients were obtained (rawr does mix'n'match with survival/mitigation/threat). From the look of it they are from a TTL/survival-heavy model, which strongly favors stamina and guaranteed mitigation compared to avoidance. From what I'm seeing, healer mana is much more of an issue than TTL, this means that mitigation (=armor, guaranteed + mastery/crit, random) and expecially avoidance (=agility) should rank a lot higher.

Vaccine · 12/14/10, 6:41 AM

For a pre-heroic chest I don't think you can beat [Sly Fox Jerkin] and it is easily obtainable off of vendors. You get ridiculous amounts of reputation just running Hyjal so should be no dungeon running required.

As for boot enchant, it is the best if you don't care about run speed. If you want a run speed one, it looks like the old Tuskarr's 15 stamina one is probably still the best eding out the 25 agility one. The 35 mastery one seems really bad.

I've got a question about the OP's gear list. On the Elementium Poleaxe and Elementium Destroyer's rings he reforges mastery to dodge, instead of crit. Now I can see on the rings why this is done, the mastery stat on the ring is higher than the crit stat, so the reforged dodge is a higher value than if the crit were reforged. But on the poleaxe, the values are equal. Why is the mastery reforged to dodge instead of the crit, when both stats are equal and both the pre-heroic and pre-raid AEP list shows Mastery as higher rating than crit?

Edit: Just had it pointed out to me I missed that there was a new stamina on boots enchant, Earthen Vitality, which blows the agi and mastery ones away.