[Feral-Bear] Cataclysm Release - Page 9

Hawtpocketz · 12/30/10, 2:47 PM

Does anyone have definitive info on whether or not skull bash can be missed/dodge/parried...the interrupt portion?

I had a parry on Heroic Omnitron and recount showed a missed interrupt and the parry. I also saw the parry in SCT.

I've seen several people swear the only thing that can miss is the drain/debuff portion but the interrupt actually goes through?

Did my Skull Bash interrupt get parried or did someone else miss an interrupt as well?

Hawtpocketz · 12/30/10, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by MacrosTheNaked

I can't really agree to this stance, it's like saying you're picking a slower race car because your mechanics like working on it better. I fully believe that the best possible, *practical* attribute/stat spread should be chosen and played. I say practical and emphasize it because I firmly believe there is little point to pure theorycrafting without practical use, however, in this case, I believe the evidence supporting the multitude of advantages agi has over stam make gemming for agi a no brainer!

That said, I think the minimum or optimal amount of HP is very up to debate and encounter specific, I might keep a few specific stamina items in my inventory so I can ramp up on stamina if it's required.

^^^agree....sadly on most other forums everyone blindly follows whatever thread seems to get the most replies or have the most vocal posters.

generally always the best advice is to see what your group needs....also needs change fight to fight and the role you are performing as tank.

as we started raids....i gemmed stam to give healers breathing room while adjusting to movement, fights, etc....as i've gotten better gear (and more stam by default), i've moved more towards agil

by the time you start getting into heroics....you should probably have enough gear to go back and forth between avoidance and stam heavy by switching a few pieces.

HashBrownJM · 12/30/10, 4:08 PM

I'm wondering if there is a known issue with using Rawr in Chrome and it not doing anything when you click 'Install Offline' for anyone else?

Grend · 12/30/10, 8:51 PM

Originally Posted by HashBrownJM

I'm wondering if there is a known issue with using Rawr in Chrome and it not doing anything when you click 'Install Offline' for anyone else?

Honestly the only luck I've had with the online version is to use IE, even Firefox is extremely "choppy" and YES I've updated Silverlight. In IE the "Install Offline" button does work.

tangedyn · 12/30/10, 9:47 PM

Originally Posted by Grend

Agility does take precedence above Crit; however, Agility is not a secondary stat and shouldn't be treated like one. Crit Rating and Mastery don't trump secondary stats if you consider Dodge rating (and hit/expertise if you are concerned with your threat generation).

I think it's agreed upon (generally, of course you could just use Rawr):

Dodge Rating > Mastery (or Crit, check Rawr) > Crit (or Mastery, check Rawr) > Hit = Expertise (if you have threat issues, hint: you shouldn't, hit/expertise probably outweigh mastery and crit) > > > > Haste

Because of the 2-roll specials, Expertise Rating should be giving you about the same or slightly more SD uptime than than Crit Rating unless you are Expertise soft-capped. This is confirmed by both Fasc's and my spreadsheet http://goo.gl/7jIJw If Rawr is not showing the same thing, I'd say it's a bug in Rawr.

Astrylian · 12/30/10, 10:13 PM

This is indeed something odd going on with stamina calculations in Rawr. Stamina is way off for some users, but Health is only slightly off. I'm researching it, but it shouldn't stop anyone from using it; you still need to adjust the survivability soft cap appropriately; that appropriate point is just slightly off of where it 'should' be.

Rawr does indeed value Exp appropriately for its value toward SD, as far as I can tell. Personally, it ends up slightly below Crit in Mitigation value, but slightly above total, when you have even a minor value to threat.

If Rawr is 'choppy' for you in Firefox, but not IE, the most likely reason is that you have an old version of it cached in Firefox. Make sure you have the latest version (4.0.13 at time of writing).

RareBeast · 12/30/10, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by HashBrownJM

I'm wondering if there is a known issue with using Rawr in Chrome and it not doing anything when you click 'Install Offline' for anyone else?

Yes, chrome has a known issue with the Rawr update where it won't automatically load the new caches.

From the Rawr website:-

"Google Chrome Users, it looks like you need to force the browser to refresh the page instead of running the cached version using Shift+F5. Otherwise you will see the old version and that can cause other crashes since new data files have been posted."

tangedyn · 12/31/10, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Rawr does indeed value Exp appropriately for its value toward SD, as far as I can tell. Personally, it ends up slightly below Crit in Mitigation value, but slightly above total, when you have even a minor value to threat.

Did you write your model? Might want to check if you have Pulverize's 9% crit considered in your model. If I leave it out from my model, then Crit Rating becomes better than Expertise Rating.

Astrylian · 12/31/10, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by tangedyn

Did you write your model? Might want to check if you have Pulverize's 9% crit considered in your model. If I leave it out from my model, then Crit Rating becomes better than Expertise Rating.

Yep, that was it. Fixing for next version.

Trencal · 12/31/10, 1:06 AM

(Stat weights with reforging)
[Entwined Elementium Choker] < [Pendant of the Lightless Grotto]
3316.68 as agility + 50.82 as haste + 997.05 as dodge + 412.75 as critical + 896.4 as 40 agility gem < 3764.88 as agility + 431.8 as critical + 860.2 as dodge + 829.92 as mastery
[Entwined Elementium Choker] 5673.65 is NOT better then 5886.8 [Pendant of the Lightless Grotto]

^-^

You have the elementium choker listed as BiS. [Pendant of the Lightless Grotto] is BiS.... By your stat list.
With agility + dodge gem, 5690.55.

Cyrax_AdS · 12/31/10, 8:24 AM

Originally Posted by Hinalover

Pre-Tier 11 Raid

Stat	Rating
Stamina	47.13
Armor	35.54
Agility	22.41
Dodge Rating	19.55
Bonus Armor	9.92
Mastery Rating	7.41
Crit Rating	6.35
Strength	4.8
Expertise Rating	4.77
Health	3.19
Attack Power	2.4
Hit Rating	2.13
Haste Rating	0.66

If i take theses numbers and put them into wowhead, the result is : Items - World of Warcraft

From what i see, the "best" tanking armor pre-25/10heroic is the Vicious one. (PvP)

The epic PvP armor seems to have the best stats in agi/sta and last stat reforged to dodge, it sounds really great.

Am i the only one suprised that the near-best tanking armor is the PvP one ?

Also, i did some heroic with my bear in full blue PvP armor, and really no problem to finish even the difficult ones.

HashBrownJM · 12/31/10, 8:58 AM

Originally Posted by RareBeast

Yes, chrome has a known issue with the Rawr update where it won't automatically load the new caches.

From the Rawr website:-

"Google Chrome Users, it looks like you need to force the browser to refresh the page instead of running the cached version using Shift+F5. Otherwise you will see the old version and that can cause other crashes since new data files have been posted."

I never actually had any issues using it within the browser. It was never choppy and all and a rather pleasing experience. I just wanted to know why the Install Offline button didn't do anything. I'll have a go at it in IE!

MatsT · 12/31/10, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by tangedyn

Because of the 2-roll specials, Expertise Rating should be giving you about the same or slightly more SD uptime than than Crit Rating unless you are Expertise soft-capped. This is confirmed by both Fasc's and my spreadsheet http://goo.gl/7jIJw If Rawr is not showing the same thing, I'd say it's a bug in Rawr.

The spreadsheets both assume a constant special every 1.5 sec and maul every 3 sec. While this is possible in theory it does not appear to be happening in any of the logs I looked at. The ratio of specials to white attacks in the spreadsheet is a lot higher than in reality and this inflates the value of Expertise. Using actual log ratios crit comes out ahead, though by such a small amount that expertise might still be a better stat.

Another problem with the SD model is that it only appears to be taking into account one dodge before the hit. There is a small chance that you will procc SD, dodge 2-3 attacks and therefore still have it up for the hit that isn't accounted for. I can not post on the US forums in Fasc's thread so I thought I'd mention it here. The difference is quite small, but it's not hard to fix assuming you are satisfied with accounting for 3 or so dodges. An entirely correct model using Boss Swing speed and Savage Defense duration is somewhat harder but could be calculated using an iterative approach.

baldeagle · 12/31/10, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Trencal

(Stat weights with reforging)
[Entwined Elementium Choker] < [Pendant of the Lightless Grotto]
3316.68 as agility + 50.82 as haste + 997.05 as dodge + 412.75 as critical + 896.4 as 40 agility gem < 3764.88 as agility + 431.8 as critical + 860.2 as dodge + 829.92 as mastery
[Entwined Elementium Choker] 5673.65 is NOT better then 5886.8 [Pendant of the Lightless Grotto]

You have the elementium choker listed as BiS. [Pendant of the Lightless Grotto] is BiS.... By your stat list.
With agility + dodge gem, 5690.55.

As has already been posted prior, the OP has not updated the list. Don't use that list as gospel, use Rawr to see what is best for your current set up.

Originally Posted by Cyrax_AdS

If i take theses numbers and put them into wowhead, the result is : Items - World of Warcraft

From what i see, the "best" tanking armor pre-25/10heroic is the Vicious one. (PvP)

The epic PvP armor seems to have the best stats in agi/sta and last stat reforged to dodge, it sounds really great.

Am i the only one suprised that the near-best tanking armor is the PvP one ?

Also, i did some heroic with my bear in full blue PvP armor, and really no problem to finish even the difficult ones.

Same thing with stat weights. They will vary depending on your current gear set up. The pvp one is NOT bis when I use Rawr.

nesf · 12/31/10, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by RareBeast

Yes, chrome has a known issue with the Rawr update where it won't automatically load the new caches.

From the Rawr website:-

"Google Chrome Users, it looks like you need to force the browser to refresh the page instead of running the cached version using Shift+F5. Otherwise you will see the old version and that can cause other crashes since new data files have been posted."

Anyone know the keyboard shortcut for a Mac?

Edit: It's shift+reload.

Looks my problems with Rawr not loading are a different issue. I'm having to uninstall the Silverlight plug-in and reinstall it between Rawr sessions at the moment if the Mac is suddenly powered off (i.e. my one year old daughter turns off the power switch).