[Feral-Cat] Cataclysm Release - Page 10

Husyor · 01/16/11, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by nastybuff

The tooltip infact is updated, the weapon damage increase is applied using cat form weapon speed resulting in almoust 680 added dps in character window BUT does not appliy on bleeds.

So I assume it doesn't add feral attack power then and just increases our white hits?

Beanna · 01/16/11, 12:09 PM

It also increases special attacks like Shred or Mangle which rely on weapon damages, not only white hits.

Docrev · 01/19/11, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by spanctimony

Anybody else use the PVP gloves (10 less energy/rage to skull bash) in 10m raids when you're required to interrupt?

I find it lets me ride the dps line pretty hard while still maintaining primary focus on the interrupt rotation.

The DPS gain isn't primarily from the 10 extra energy...the DPS gain comes from being able to be more aggressive in your rotation because of the huge decrease in time spent unable to skull bash. Remember, DPS is heavily affected by raid mechanics, so "number theory" is only so valid, and I strongly suspect that while the blue PVP gloves would do worse than the epic rep gloves in rawr (obviously), in real world on interrupting fights (obviously not in 25 man situations) they will come out ahead for all but the people who have flawless rotation.

Thoughts?

I used the same concept on Vezax and Jaraxxus on my rogue with the Furious Gladiator's Leather Gloves. Probably at best a wash in terms of DPS, but for cases where a missed interrupt can cause a wipe, it's at least worth looking into.

Beanna · 01/19/11, 2:24 AM

I also use the PvP gloves on Halfus because I'm assigned to kick in our 10m raids and I especially reforged them into hit since it become a very important stat for this specific encounter.
I do not know if this will become a handicap when we will get the 4T11 bonus that we will lose by changing gloves but in the meantime I think it's worth it.

Vengeful · 01/19/11, 6:44 PM

Originally Posted by eXcel905

With the change to [Unheeded Warning]'s proc on the PTR (Your melee attacks have a chance to increase your weapon damage by 680 for 10 sec.) How does this rank with other trinkets now? Since several of our attacks are based on WPN dmg and WPN dmg being our # dps weight It seems like it would be a good competitor but where would this rank, would this beat out Essence of Cyclone + Fluid Death?

Preface: I haven't participated in the PTR nor am I a math wiz.

We know that our Weapon DPS weighting will only going to go up with 4.0.6 which makes me hopeful. Using current stat weightings and the new proc, it looks like the trinket will be competetive before heroics. I'm interested to see what testing will turn out. One dropped for my guild that nobody wanted so I'm hanging on to it until we know for sure.

Using Finwe_Bear's formula and weightings in post #97 and a (what I consider) very conservative time to proc, I have [Unheeded Warning] slightly above Tia's Grace (346). Again, new weightings from the DoT Nerf & DD buff will benefit UW.

Leafkiller · 01/19/11, 7:26 PM

Originally Posted by Vengeful

Preface: I haven't participated in the PTR nor am I a math wiz.

We know that our Weapon DPS weighting will only going to go up with 4.0.6 which makes me hopeful. Using current stat weightings and the new proc, it looks like the trinket will be competetive before heroics. I'm interested to see what testing will turn out. One dropped for my guild that nobody wanted so I'm hanging on to it until we know for sure.

Using Finwe_Bear's formula and weightings in post #97 and a (what I consider) very conservative time to proc, I have [Unheeded Warning] slightly above Tia's Grace (346). Again, new weightings from the DoT Nerf & DD buff will benefit UW.

I just checked the three trinkets on a slightly out of date version of my toon using an experimental version of Mew that models Unheeded Warning.

I show Unheeded Warning as a 250dps up over Tia's Grace and as a 150dps up over Fluid Death. Assuming the modeling is correct, then Unheeded Warning will be our BIS ilvl 359 trinket (probably BIS overall but I have not compared it to the ilvl 372 trinkets).

Bashui · 01/19/11, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Leafkiller

I just checked the three trinkets on a slightly out of date version of my toon using an experimental version of Mew that models Unheeded Warning.

I show Unheeded Warning as a 250dps up over Tia's Grace and as a 150dps up over Fluid Death. Assuming the modeling is correct, then Unheeded Warning will be our BIS ilvl 359 trinket (probably BIS overall but I have not compared it to the ilvl 372 trinkets).

I was surprised at this, especially considering editing the item in rawr and using mew rsvs both put it around [Key to the Endless Chamber] and [Right Eye of Rajh] for my toon. I could be reading this wrong, but I was browsing the lastest mew source and it looks like the bonus weapon damage is added in twice:

        public double getWeaponDamage() {
                double weaponDmg = 1 + (double)(mToon.weaponTop + mToon.weaponBottom) / 2  + bonusWeaponDamage + getAttackPower() * mToon.weaponSpeed / 14000;
                weaponDmg = weaponDmg / mToon.weaponSpeed * 1000;
                weaponDmg += bonusWeaponDamage;

                return weaponDmg;
        }

I need to stop being lazy and set up eclipse again so i can build mew myself

Yawning · 01/19/11, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bashui

I could be reading this wrong, but I was browsing the lastest mew source and it looks like the bonus weapon damage is added in twice

Oops. Yeah. I screwed that up when I added it in since I copy/pasted stuff out of the base implementation. Fixed in trunk. Fortunately it only affects developer snapshots and not what's in general circulation since Unheeded Warning 4.0.6 is the only item that exercises that code.

Beanna · 01/20/11, 6:29 AM

I was wondering about the value of hit and exp in the next patch. Since our DPS will rely more on Shred after the nerf of our dots, do you think this two stats will become better?
And do you think this changes could put [Belt of Nefarious Whispers] above [Dispersing Belt]? For now, the second belt is better despite the lack of mastery according to Mew but hit should become better in the next patch I imagine.

david0925 · 01/20/11, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Beanna

I was wondering about the value of hit and exp in the next patch. Since our DPS will rely more on Shred after the nerf of our dots, do you think this two stats will become better?
And do you think this changes could put [Belt of Nefarious Whispers] above [Dispersing Belt]? For now, the second belt is better despite the lack of mastery according to Mew but hit should become better in the next patch I imagine.

Mastery's value will be decreased by about 10% due to Bleed damage decreased by 10%. However, this still does not change the fact that Feral is limited by energy and not by cooldowns (DK, Warriors, etc) or casting time (casters), unlike pretty much all other classes. Even back in WoTLK hit and expertise were only more valuable when we approached the crit cap, and that was even with all the armor penetration. The relative importance of the stats will probably not change much, although the values will be much closer.

Leafkiller · 01/21/11, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bashui

I was surprised at this, especially considering editing the item in rawr and using mew rsvs both put it around [Key to the Endless Chamber] and [Right Eye of Rajh] for my toon. I could be reading this wrong, but I was browsing the lastest mew source and it looks like the bonus weapon damage is added in twice:

        public double getWeaponDamage() {
                double weaponDmg = 1 + (double)(mToon.weaponTop + mToon.weaponBottom) / 2  + bonusWeaponDamage + getAttackPower() * mToon.weaponSpeed / 14000;
                weaponDmg = weaponDmg / mToon.weaponSpeed * 1000;
                weaponDmg += bonusWeaponDamage;

                return weaponDmg;
        }

I need to stop being lazy and set up eclipse again so i can build mew myself

Posting new numbers with this bug fixed in Mew. I treated Fluid Death as 193 hit and 128 mastery. On my toon, using my sim script modified for 4.06, I had the following dps numbers:

Fluid Death + Tia's Grace: 20,828
Tia's Grace + Unheeded Warning: 20,853
Fluid Death + Unheeded Warning: 21,070

At least for me (assuming that Mew is modeling it correctly) I am seeing Unheeded Warning as a 25dps up over Fluid Death and a 242dps up over Tia's Grace on a perfectly executed stationary fight. In other words, the actual dps will be lower but it looks like Unheeded Warning displaces Fluid Death as our third BiS trinket.

Bashui · 01/21/11, 6:28 PM

Originally Posted by Leafkiller

Posting new numbers with this bug fixed in Mew. I treated Fluid Death as 193 hit and 128 mastery. On my toon, using my sim script modified for 4.06, I had the following dps numbers:

Fluid Death + Tia's Grace: 20,828
Tia's Grace + Unheeded Warning: 20,853
Fluid Death + Unheeded Warning: 21,070

At least for me (assuming that Mew is modeling it correctly) I am seeing Unheeded Warning as a 25dps up over Fluid Death and a 242dps up over Tia's Grace on a perfectly executed stationary fight. In other words, the actual dps will be lower but it looks like Unheeded Warning displaces Fluid Death as our third BiS trinket.

It looks like +Weapon Damage isn't supported in the RAWR cat model currently. I tried to hack it in and it also bumped it up above fluid death by about 250 dps, which probably means I missed something.

Brig · 01/21/11, 8:03 PM

Has anyone done some testing/speculating yet as to glyph choices relating to the change to [Unheeded Warning]? Or more specifically, will the change have an effect on it, resulting in choosing Glyph of Savage Roar over Tiger's Fury once again (assuming one has [Unheeded Warning])?

Any thoughts on this?

Leafkiller · 01/21/11, 11:35 PM

With Fluid Death and Unheeded Warning:
Glyph of TF: 21070
Glyph of SR: 20924
Glyph of Berserk: 20951

This is with FB still in the rotation. With FB in the rotation, adding in glyph of FB moves me to 21106. Taking FB out of the rotation (until Blood in the Water) gives me 21113 (see my post on the Mew thread for more discussion of taking FB out of the rotation). Note - it is a dps loss to use glyph of FB if you take FB out of the rotation.

Husyor · 01/22/11, 12:18 AM

It could bump both up since the weapon damage increase will also increase specials and not just white hits. I don't know specific numbers though.

Edit: Should have refreshed, but the comment still stands.

Has anyone figured out which would be the optimal offset piece for heroic gear? I guess it depends on how the stat changes go next patch, but from what I would gather it would be the chest as the offset. Considering as how it has crit and mastery our 2 best secondary stats.