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Old 02/04/11, 9:36 PM   #166
Nathanyel
Don Flamenco
 
Nathanyel's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
That sounds good, so the psychological component of stacking it early wins: "phew, got 3 stacks already, I'm fully buffed in that regard (now don't forget to re-apply it every ~27 seconds)"
Optimistically speaking, this could even affect your concentration positively, and hence your ability to dish out a better "rotation".

Tender Puregrove: It's those little victores that keep me going. We'll save this forest one squirrel at a time.

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Old 02/04/11, 10:17 PM   #167
Leafkiller
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Stormrage
When I last measured this, I found the optimum was to stack Panther opportunistically, in place of filler shreds. You can see it in both the sim scripts and the Ovale script. Just do it when there is nothing else important to do. Putting it any higher in the rotation as a priority was a dps loss in the simulations I did, and stacking it every 30 seconds was also a dps loss.

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Old 02/04/11, 10:27 PM   #168
Jazzhandz
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Stormscale
Originally Posted by Jazdia View Post
Stacking SotP at the start is better, but only by an extremely small amount. In a 10 minute long fight this could end up being as much as 9,240 additional damage.
Any idea on the minimum amount of uptime needed for this method? So if it were an encounter like Atramedes where you're on the boss for a minute or so then off for 30sec, would it still be beneficial to quickly stack SotP or just use a normal rotation?

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Old 02/05/11, 1:49 AM   #169
Husyor
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
I think the goal would be to have 100% uptime once you get it stacked, although some fights that's not possible. Do you guys stack it to 3 even if you have 5 combo points so you can buff rip with it? At the most, it's one extra mangle and ~1 sec that rip is down for the extra stacking. I hate blizz for giving us this kind of 4pc and making it sufficient enough to want to get...

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Old 02/08/11, 2:36 AM   #170
beleg_strongbow
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Blackhand (EU)
I usually start with 2 Stacks SOTP as well.

If it falls off for any reason, I reapply it to full, UNLESS Rip would fall off. As stated above it is better to reapply 3 Stacks SotP before refreshing Rake.

In many fights where you have to pause rotation (eg Atramedes flight phase) I try to get an additional rake/rip AND mangle before he launches into air phase - so SotP doesn't fall off.

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Old 02/08/11, 5:26 PM   #171
Jamu
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
The Scryers
I've read through the thread, and would like to see if people think this might be a reasonable ranking on trinkets for 4.06:

BiS

Essence of the Cyclone (372)
Prestor's Talisman of Machination (372)
Fluid Death

Top tier:

Unheeded Warning (possibly 2nd tier? jury seems to be still out on this one - Mew told me with my gear, 346/starting raid level, it was BiS outside of 372's, and Rawr tossed it in 2nd tier with the same gear, so there's a bit of a discrepancy there; possibly stronger at lower gear levels, then other trinkets overtake as they scale better?)
Tia's Grace (346)
Heart of Rage (372)

2nd tier:

Prestor's Talisman of Machination (359)
Essence of the Cyclone (359)
Quicksilver Alchemist Stone (agi/crit)

Entry-level:

Tia's Grace (333)
Key to the Endless Chamber (346)
Darkmoon Card: Hurricane (agi based)

Thoughts?

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Old 02/08/11, 8:12 PM   #172
Husyor
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Based on my stats, I have UH being better than Fluid Death by about 37 dps, not huge, but enough. I am using 372 cyclone in other slot and UH + 372 is better than UH+FD or FD+372

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Old 02/08/11, 10:21 PM   #173
raffy
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Suramar
Sorry to interrupt the discussion about trinkets, but I was wondering if there was a clear consensus about fractional mastery. Is more mastery always useful? Or does 21.00 mastery produce the same bleed bonus as 21.99?

On a different note, I was wondering if anyone has considered applying the Rawr/Mew models in reverse (maybe it already does something like this) to evaluate "combat log efficiency" ie. run the model alongside the parse, and produce comments like "wasted 10 energy here", "mangle fell off", "priority disagreement: model says rake, you ripped", "clipped too soon", "tf is misaligned", "berserk off cd for x seconds", "lost a buff", "stepped out of melee range" etc... I'm sure most of us know the rotation/priority very well but aren't robots when it comes to execution.

Ideally, it would awesome to know, for a given fight, if there was nothing (or something) else I could of done, to make my DPS better. Did my DPS suck because of variance or because I mixed up my rotation? It would be also interesting to calculate how much time (if any) is available to use Predatory Swiftness without a DPS loss.

While Rawr/Mew/and various spreadsheets help define a loot/upgrade hierarchy, they do little to improve our human execution and it still seems like there's a lot of potential for optimization in both knowing what you're doing wrong (by comparing yourself to the model in time) and by making small gear changes on a per-fight basis (especially in the trinket department, that disagree with BiS predictions) rather than establishing a clear BiS winner for all cases.

Lastly, maybe this isn't the place for it, but I haven't seen much discussion about macros or interface mods. For me, I've found the best primary, single-target debuff tracker to be Inline Aura (Inline Aura - WoW AddOns - WowAce.com).

Edit: misspelling

Last edited by raffy : 02/09/11 at 5:29 AM.

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Old 02/09/11, 1:59 AM   #174
Husyor
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by raffy View Post
Lastly, maybe this isn't the place for it, but I haven't seen much discussion about macros or interface mods. For me, I've found the best primary, single-target debuff tracker to be Inline Aura (Inline Aura - WoW AddOns - WowAce.com).
I use Phlebotomiser as I had previously used and liked very much FBN. It has a move suggester which you may or may not follow all the time, but as I said, its a suggester. But on top of that, it has a debuff, proc, and CD trackers which are the main reason I use it. The only thing I don't like about it, is I had to go get a separate energy/combo point tracker, which I use Rogue Focus Classic I think it is called.

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Old 02/13/11, 1:25 PM   #175
bonta
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Medivh
Is the Glyph of Ferocious Bite worth using now with the big buff to shred damage?

With Unheeded Warning equipped, shred is doing some comparable damage to a 5 cp ferocious bite even with the extra energy.

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Old 02/13/11, 2:34 PM   #176
Leafkiller
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Stormrage
Glyph of FB tests out as a dps loss in the sims - assuming you are not using FB in your rotation until the boss life is 25% or lower.

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Old 02/14/11, 1:01 AM   #177
bonta
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Medivh
so when i pop berserk and got all my bleeds up and 5 cp savage roar....ill still have like 70 ish energy with 5 cp remaining...should i use ferocious bite? or keep shredding?

because by using ferocious bite i would burn alot of energy that could be used for our new improved shred damage

but then i would be wasting alot of combo points...course this problem only occurs during berserk mode only.

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Old 02/14/11, 1:35 AM   #178
Nich
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dreadmaul
I've found that without UW proc'd, a full FB is better DPE than a shred. Assuming you have enough time/CP/energy to keep everything else up in the air.

I'd like to offer moral support, but I have questionable morals

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Old 02/14/11, 6:36 AM   #179
Nathanyel
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
Originally Posted by Nich View Post
I've found that without UW proc'd, a full FB is better DPE than a shred. Assuming you have enough time/CP/energy to keep everything else up in the air.
That's a rare scenario, though.

Glyph of FB certainly seems attractive now, even when we won't use FB until <25% - the extra energy spent without the glyph would be better invested in another Shred, and it doesn't leave you energy-starved after refreshing your Rip, avoiding problems such as Rake or 4T11 falling off.

Tender Puregrove: It's those little victores that keep me going. We'll save this forest one squirrel at a time.

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Old 02/14/11, 7:31 AM   #180
spiderxjz82
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Druid
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
I'm still slightly bemused over the Unheeded Warning.

I'm running with 2pc T11 and the rest are all normal 359s, with the exception of Tia's Grace.

I'm also using Fluid Death, however my Tia's Grace is showing as being 3rd BiS on Rawr, only below 372 Prestor's and Essence of the Cyclone, rating it at around 1152 dps, however Unheeded is RIGHT down the list, at almost 1055 dps, below items like Left Eye of Rajh and Key to the Endless Chamber. Tia's Grace normal (333) is only 3 places under UW, at 1013dps. Is this just my gear level or is UW slightly broken on Rawr at the moment?As I was debating buying it the other evening.

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