[Feral-Cat] Cataclysm Release - Page 20

Leafkiller · 05/07/11, 2:42 AM

Casting TF and Berserk together is optimum now as there is not upper limit on energy for Berserk since you can cast any other ability at the same time and not risk too much energy loss.

While you do not want to Berserk every time you hit TF with Berserk off of cooldown (just in case you are waiting for an opportune time such as aoe phases on Meloriak or the exposed head on Magmaw), you do want to try to hit TF at the same time you Berserk unless you recently used TF and need to use Berserk for some specific situation.

Szynszyla · 05/08/11, 6:25 AM

I wanted to ask, in case I missed this within glyph of ferocious bite discussion within the thread.
Since DPS increase, heroic fights take less and less time and usually 2nd or 3rd berserk is ready during <25% phase were we use Ferocious Bite as finisher.
Isn't glyph of Ferocious Bite a DPS increase in such situation? Since burning through whole energy without glyph during berserk couses less shreds which ends up with less Ferocious Bites (and lower dps?), or actually ferocious bite damage per energy doesn't effect DPS during berserk even if we are energy starved after?

Edit: Nvm this question, found out that FB is 2x about more efficient that shred in energy conversion. However it looks like FB energy cost is not halfed during berserk?

Edit2: I noticed when testing weird FB energy cost behavior. Sometimes it will take me down to ~80 energy (after pooling to max). Other times it will take me down to 70-80energy and 0.5sec later to 35-55 energy again (after pooling to max also).
Should release some video later today or tomorrow but I think it can be reproduced by anyone to test.

Vaccine · 05/08/11, 6:54 AM

The cost is halved, the excess energy conversion isn't. So it's 17.5 energy cost during berserk (or however it rounds it) plus the up to 35 energy conversion which isn't affected. I have wondered about the viability of the glyph combined with the 4 piece T12, but I'm still convinced they'll get around to rebalancing FB so it's worth using at all times before the 4.2 patch goes live so speculation at this early point is likely to be useless.

Helistar · 05/08/11, 7:02 AM

Originally Posted by Szynszyla

Edit: Nvm this question, found out that FB is 2x about more efficient that shred in energy conversion. However it looks like FB energy cost is not halfed during berserk?

Edit2: I noticed when testing weird FB energy cost behavior. Sometimes it will take me down to ~80 energy (after pooling to max). Other times it will take me down to 70-80energy and 0.5sec later to 35-55 energy again (after pooling to max also).
Should release some video later today or tomorrow but I think it can be reproduced by anyone to test.

FB works in a complicated way, with energy consumption being performed half client-side and half-server side (note that what I write below is mostly speculation which comes from my attempts at reconstructing the energy profile during a fight).

What normally happens when you shred is that, in order to provide you with instant feedback, the energy bar is reduced by the shred cost immediately upon cast (SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS), after some checks are performed client-side (GCD, enough energy, position).
The SPELL_DAMAGE event occurs later in time, after your cast has gone to the server and the server has determined the actual damage.
With FB, the problem is that the server cannot trust the energy value of the client to determine the "extra energy" used to increase the damage from FB (it would open the way to cheating), so the FB energy consumption is performed in two steps:
- at cast time, you immediately spend 35 energy (or 35/2 if berserking)
- the cast is transferred to the server, which uses its energy value to determine actual damage and returns it to the client, together with the actual amount of extra energy which has been used (this amount is not divided by 2 when berserk is up)
- the client updates the energy bar with the new information received.

When you cast FB, expecially in a high-lag situation, this two-step energy consumption becomes very visible (BTW one of the problems I'm finding with reconstructing the energy, and which I'm conveniently ignoring, is that I have trouble understanding how this interacts with TF, which provides an immediate energy increase which can happen between the two steps of FB).

Leafkiller · 05/09/11, 3:38 AM

Even in the current content the cost of using GoFB is pretty low. In my Mew sims with a profile around ilvl 362 it comes out as only a 25 dps loss - and it is potentially advantages on some fights.

tangedyn · 05/09/11, 4:07 AM

Just a quick note, we've pretty much confirmed with Mew that it is now a DPS gain to clip Rip when TF is up. Previously it was a DPS loss when we still used FB as a finisher making CPs a limited resource. Also confirmed that letting Rip drop to synch up with an upcoming TF does not improve DPS.

Mihir · 05/10/11, 2:47 AM

Does Tiger's Fury make Rip 'clippable' by default yet? Or is it still only based on AP?

tangedyn · 05/10/11, 7:15 AM

In Mew or in game? I don't think the clippable behaviour has been changed in Mew

Leafkiller · 05/10/11, 4:48 PM

Originally Posted by tangedyn

Just a quick note, we've pretty much confirmed with Mew that it is now a DPS gain to clip Rip when TF is up. Previously it was a DPS loss when we still used FB as a finisher making CPs a limited resource. Also confirmed that letting Rip drop to synch up with an upcoming TF does not improve DPS.

Is that with the 1 1/2 tick switch for ripshreds enabled?

Obblivion · 05/10/11, 9:17 PM

Obviously it's still PTR stuff and can change a lot before the patch goes live.
New changes in red.

Druids now gain 1 attack power per point of Strength, down from 2. They continue to gain 2 attack power per point of Agility while in Cat Form or Bear Form.
Entangling Roots and the equivalent spell triggered by Nature's Grasp no longer deal damage.
Ferocious Bite damage has been increased by 15%. In addition, its base cost has been reduced to 25 energy and it can use up to 25 energy, for up to a 100% damage increase.
Innervate now grants an ally target 5% of his or her maximum mana over 10 seconds, but still grants 20% of the druid's maximum mana over 10 seconds when self-cast.
Mangle (Cat) damage at level 80 and above has been increased to 530% weapon damage, up from 460%.
Omen of Clarity clearcasting buff from now lasts 15 seconds, up from 8 seconds.
Ravage damage at level 80 and above has been increased to 975% weapon damage, up from 850%.
Shred damage at level 80 and above has been increased to 520% weapon damage, up from 450%.
Swipe (Cat) now deals 600% weapon damage at level 80 or higher, down from 670%.
Glyph of Berserk duration increase is now 10 seconds, up from 5.

Looks like they're finally trying to fix ferals and are making the T12 4 set more meaningful aswell (with the FB change).
Personally I'm also glad about the innervate change (even though it's not "new" now and not that big boost), as my guilds healers still tend to ask for feral innervates despite it only being around 5k mana currently.

Husyor · 05/10/11, 11:25 PM

I wonder if haste will move up in RSV with the changes in 4.2. Glyph of Berserk being 10 secs instead of 5, 2 piece granting additional fire damage for our non bleed attacks, 4 piece extending berserk so more energy=more berserk, increased damage on mangle, shred, and FB. I mean the changes aren't set in stone yet, but what do you guys think?

tangedyn · 05/10/11, 11:36 PM

Yawning has updated the 4.2 changes into Mew SVN.
From quick testing, FB is still not good enough to be used over Shred @5CPs (it's a very very marginal DPS increase), but Glyph of Berserk is an obvious better choice now over Glyph of TF. 4T12 is a nice boost now especially with Glyph of FB (which is now usable) and Glyph of Berserk.

Originally Posted by Leafkiller

Is that with the 1 1/2 tick switch for ripshreds enabled?

Not enabled

Szynszyla · 05/11/11, 1:51 AM

We will still run out of energy in berserk, I've been running a troll cat recently with all reforges to haste in nearly full 372, yet sometimes you run out of energy with some good chance of having at least 50 energy at the end with enough RNG on clearcasts.

Question is, how much non troll cats will suffer due to berserk increase uptime?

Nich · 05/11/11, 4:53 AM

Are the bumps to mangle and shred actual buffs, or it's a wash after the AP nerf from SoE/HoW/STR in general?

tangedyn · 05/11/11, 5:01 AM

The AP nerf is a static nerf, because just about all our source of STR is static.
The mangle and shred buff are scaling multiplier buffs.