Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01/06/11, 9:00 PM   #106
Kokomala
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Anvilmar
Some real world numbers on DMC: Hurricane.

On Throne of the 4 Winds last night we did around 10 attempts until the kill (ranged tank kept getting blown off).

DMC Hurricane did between 1.1 - 3.3% of my damage per fight. Average seemed to be about 1.7% normally.

I think the 3.3% high was when I was swiping the adds on the left boss. It procced alot with Swipe.

Last edited by Kokomala : 01/07/11 at 4:29 AM.

Offline
Old 01/06/11, 9:35 PM   #107
Leafkiller
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by TheJinchuuriki View Post
I think your undervaluing the on-use trinkets, mew claims [Unsolvable Riddle] is worth much more(~800 dps) than [Tia's Grace]. Face-value conversions fail to accredit stacking on-uses with TF, Berserk or any other cooldowns.
Can you be more specific on how you tested this? I just compared the two trinkets in Mew using both formulation and simulation and my current gear set. Using formulation Tia's Grace was about 100dps better. Using Simulation (and my Mew script) Unsolvable Riddle was just over 20dps ahead. There is a good chance you incorrectly entered the stats when comparing the two trinkets (perhaps adding to base agi instead of mastery for Unsolvable Riddle).

Offline
Old 01/07/11, 1:20 AM   #108
goemb
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dentarg (EU)
Jewelcrafting
Meta gems with the Chaotic and Relentless prefixes now have a requirement of 3 red gems.
Added new meta gems: Agile Shadowspirit Diamond (Agility/3% critical damage), Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond (Strength/3% critical damage), and Burning Shadowspirit Diamond (Intellect/3% critical damage). These new recipes are unbound and can drop from any Cataclysm creature. The new meta gems have a requirement of 3 red gems equipped.
Source

So we will be switchting to "Agile shadowspirit Diamond" I assume.
Now I am wondering if not gemming for straight agility will still benifit us?

Offline
Old 01/07/11, 2:39 AM   #109
Robosaurus
Von Kaiser
 
Robosaurus's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Khaz'goroth
Hurray for Vicious Gladitors!

In case you were not aware, right now 352 4PvP beats 2x359+2x346 non-tier with a comfortable margin. So I would recommend obtaining Bloodthirsty 4set with reputation gloves as offset [Liar's Handwraps]

Here is a comparison of 4.0.3 sets, to spur your imagination. They were compiled with the assumption that we use Red+Green pairing to obtain PvE damage stats - This will change in 4.0.6.

PvE Set (Best in Slot t11.0)
4Piece, [Tsanga's Helm] offset due to tier chest socket bonus when using [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond]
Stats, assuming 100% uptime on Tia's Grace + Fluid Death
 W-DPS 723 
 AGI 4870 
 STR 167 
 Mastery 2257 
 Crit 1473 
 Haste 890 
 Hit 550 
 Exp 113 
 AP 947 
Buffs: Full minus DI, UF, ToTT, Shattering Throw
(Formulation/Simulation)
4t11.0 Best in Slot
DPS without set bonus : 22214.3094 / 21974.66609
2piece estimate: 442.71806 / 442.43097
4piece estimate: 433.44069/ 369.43936
DPS including set bonus: 23070.46815 / 22786.53642
PvE RSV with no set bonus

 StatCalcSim 
 MeleeDps4.124313.98189 
 Agility2.951172.93474 
 Strength2.230372.20835 
 MasteryRating1.181981.17588 
 Ap1.062081.0538 
 CritRating1.001250.98716 
 HasteRating0.919720.9071 
 HitRating0.840410.80257 
 ExpertiseRating0.840410.80577 
PvP Set
4Piece, [Tsanga's Helm] Offset due to resilience socket bonus on PvP Helm, as well as 30Agi being the best available socket bonus.
===
(including 250 Agi PvP bonus)
 W-DPS723 
 AGI5160 
 STR167 
 Mastery2134 
 Crit1353 
 Haste552 
 Hit390 
 Exp96 
 AP947 
Buffs: Full minus DI, UF, ToTT, Shattering Throw

(Formulation/Simulation)
DPS without set bonus : 21611.20666
2piece estimate: 200.40
4piece estimate: 518.3146
DPS including set bonus: 22329.91801 / 22101.76818
 StatCalcSim 
 MeleeDps4.007543.84343 
 Agility2.891652.85773 
 Strength2.175152.15917 
 MasteryRating1.222821.21445 
 Ap1.035791.02921 
 CritRating0.998740.99227 
 HasteRating0.9380.85209 
 HitRating0.850910.7544 
 ExpertiseRating0.850910.75364 

Note that from Mew Simulations, PvP set is worse by approx. 685dps (and it is easier to obtain with 5games a week).
Notes for now (4.0.3)
Since the PvE set is itself worth AT LEAST 811.87033 DPS, then you should havea a backup plan to obtain 4piece PvP, as this will net you a greater damage output than offpieces. This is particularly true if you are in a guild that will not be killing Cho'gall / Nefarion for a while, since these are required to complete your 4piece. You may be able to get a better benefit from 2t11, depending on what drops for you. Vicious 4set is perfectly viable, and desirable for PvE dps.
I myself have TWO feral druids, one who raids at hard mode level and the other who has 4piece PvP, and unbuffed they do such similar damage it frustrates me (within 300dps, despite clear gear differences).
Notes for later (4.0.6)
Let's assume Blizzard is perfect at balancing, and they choose to balance us at the Tier11.0 level. Here is some napkin thought. Bleeds are about 50% of our damage (Rip+Rake) and both spells are being cut by 10% damage. This will result in a 50%*10% = 5% dps loss. Shred is about 20% of our damage. This is being buffed by about 25%. This will result in a 20%*25% = 5% dps gain. So overall our dps should be similar.

However, our RSV will change. From simple assumptions, Mastery will decrease in value by 10%. Using the PvE RSV this is a drop from 1.176 to 1.058. Since Mastery is still greater than our other secondary stats we won't be reforging/regemming differently in this regard. (Yay)

Originally Posted by Tamber View Post
I think I disagree with your conclusion of hit/exp. We won't be doing any more mangles, shreds or rakes than we are today. They will still refund the same when missing. I don't see where that would make hit/exp more valuable.
But since we lost dps from Mastery, where do we regain this dps? Shred damage increases in value so this affects everything EXCEPT mastery. Omen of clarity has a higher value thus HIT has a higher value because you do not want to miss the proc as much anymore. Haste gives you more regen+OoC for shred. I imagine agility would also be increased for the decrease to the value of mastery and since we have a lot more agility and less mastery in the PvP set, then the cat damage readjustment could see 4piece PvP dps approach 4t11 PvE dps.

Last edited by Robosaurus : 01/11/11 at 4:31 PM. Reason: Fixed the confusing tables. | FTW!

Offline
Old 01/07/11, 2:57 AM   #110
Robosaurus
Von Kaiser
 
Robosaurus's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Khaz'goroth
Gem pure red post patch!

Originally Posted by goemb View Post
Source
So we will be switching to "Agile Shadowspirit Diamond" I assume.
Using the RSV from the post above, You need ~2.5 Mastery for every 1 agility you lose, prior to the bleed rebalance.
After the rebalance you will need ~2.77 Mastery for every 1 agility you lose. Since Mastery is the best secondary stat, this means for every non-red gem you need to gain at least 50-55.4 of a secondary stat, if not more. The highest secondary stat socket bonus in this tier is +30haste. Even if this was mastery it would not be enough.

Thus we should only consider agility socket bonuses.

Hence we will be gemming pure red, except if there is a ~12agi bonus for yellow and ~17agi bonus for blue. ([Tsanga's Helm], [Stormrider's Headpiece], [Stormrider's Raiment])

As for whether we will be switching metagems: It depends how much agility and what the %modifier on critical strike damage is. This is likely to be a direct upgrade over relentless, however they could be tricky and do +50agility +2%critical strike damage. [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond] will have its requirement changed to 3 Red Gems as well, so it is certain that this will be one of the best 2 gems.

Last edited by Robosaurus : 01/07/11 at 3:22 AM. Reason: Fixing Crossovers

Offline
Old 01/07/11, 5:30 AM   #111
fr0d0b0ls0n
Von Kaiser
 
fr0d0b0ls0n's Avatar
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Sanguino (EU)
Skull Bash can be dodged?

If we need to cap hit for succesful interrupts we'll lose 350+ dps, but if we also need to cap expertise, that's another 300+ dps lost. I'm already thinking in asking to never be in interrupt duty.

Follow the Moeko Principle.

Offline
Old 01/07/11, 5:44 AM   #112
MatsT
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
Neither players nor mobs/bosses can dodge or parry while they are casting a spell, so capping expertise won't help.

Offline
Old 01/07/11, 9:05 PM   #113
Windchilla
Vodka Drunkenski
 
Windchilla's Avatar
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Cho'gall
The relatively high cost of our interrupt makes us an unlikely candidate for interrupt duty. However, it's nice to have the option if your raid comp is light on interrupters. I'm not called to interrupt due to the combination of high cost and signifigant impact on my DPS rotation, but I like being able to backup someone in a pinch.

"...for an angel is often only a demon who stands between us and our enemy."

Offline
Old 01/08/11, 6:12 PM   #114
 Polynices
What does Von Kaiser mean?
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Cenarius
Originally Posted by Windchilla View Post
if your raid comp is light on interrupters
If there's any chance you'll be depended on for interrupts, make sure you've picked up [Bloodthirsty Gladiator's Dragonhide Gloves]. It will be a DPS loss over PvE gloves but it makes interrupting much easier and raid wipes are even worse DPS.

United States Offline
Old 01/09/11, 11:50 PM   #115
Ínsane
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Haomarush (EU)
some people reported [Unheeded Warning] to have changed on PTR to be a 680 Weapon damage proc with 10 seconds duration and 50 seconds cooldown , i was woundring if that will affect our trinket choice?

Offline
Old 01/10/11, 10:24 AM   #116
Bashui
Von Kaiser
 
Bashui's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Thunderhorn
Originally Posted by Ínsane View Post
some people reported [Unheeded Warning] to have changed on PTR to be a 680 Weapon damage proc with 10 seconds duration and 50 seconds cooldown , i was woundring if that will affect our trinket choice?
Editing the item in Rawr, even with 100% proc chance puts it in between [Key to the Endless Chamber] and [Right Eye of Rajh] for my character (so about 10ish pre-raid items still better than it). Napkin math using mew RSVs agrees.

Phlebotomiser: make 'em bleed

Offline
Old 01/10/11, 1:36 PM   #117
eXcel905
Banned
 
Troll Shaman
 
Bleeding Hollow
Originally Posted by Windchilla View Post
The relatively high cost of our interrupt makes us an unlikely candidate for interrupt duty. However, it's nice to have the option if your raid comp is light on interrupters. I'm not called to interrupt due to the combination of high cost and signifigant impact on my DPS rotation, but I like being able to backup someone in a pinch.
The excuse I'm used to hearing on this part is "I don't care about your DPS, just interrupt even if you have chance to miss" since we put about 2-3 interrupts / cycle just incase someone misses/chokes. I find my self either pooling energy too much or having to use TF to interupt instead of dps

Offline
Old 01/10/11, 3:14 PM   #118
Kioga
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Azgalor
Originally Posted by Robosaurus View Post
In case you were not aware, right now 352 4PvP beats 2x359+2x346 non-tier with a comfortable margin. So I would recommend obtaining Bloodthirsty 4set with reputation gloves as offset [Liar's Handwraps]
I have thought this true for a while but was unable to get RAWR to recognize the 4pc pvp bonus. That and for some reason most Pre-raid BIS lists seem to undervalue the pvp items or fail to include them at all (probably not taking into account the bonus).

Assuming the pvp set is best, has anyone determined which 4 pieces are best suited to get the bonus and should we only break the bonus for 2p T11 or better? I'm considering the chest,legs,shoulders, and gloves + [Tsanga's Helm].

Offline
Old 01/10/11, 5:36 PM   #119
Bashui
Von Kaiser
 
Bashui's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Thunderhorn
Originally Posted by Kioga View Post
I have thought this true for a while but was unable to get RAWR to recognize the 4pc pvp bonus. That and for some reason most Pre-raid BIS lists seem to undervalue the pvp items or fail to include them at all (probably not taking into account the bonus).

Assuming the pvp set is best, has anyone determined which 4 pieces are best suited to get the bonus and should we only break the bonus for 2p T11 or better? I'm considering the chest,legs,shoulders, and gloves + [Tsanga's Helm].
I had to hand edit the items in the set to make sure the name of the set matches for each. Some of my items show Vicious Gladiator's Sanctuary and some show Gladiator's Sanctuary. Refreshing from wowhead returns the season name in the name of the set. The set name (shown in the buffs) doesn't have the season name, so you need to go through and remove the season name from each item and you should be able to get RAWR to recognize the set bonus.

Playing around with RAWR, the 4pc is nice, but 2t11 beats it by about 90 dps. The pvp stuff is very nice for tanking.

Last edited by Bashui : 01/10/11 at 5:53 PM.

Phlebotomiser: make 'em bleed

Offline
Old 01/11/11, 12:42 PM   #120
Nelkanor
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blade's Edge (EU)
Glyph of Shred

Concerning Glyph of Shred, I did some testing in the Argent Tournament melee target and it appears that the glyph is not refreshing Rip's duration when the Rip has been refreshed by a FB under 25% target's health. With regards to the glyph, the Rip is treated not as being a new one reapplied, but as an existing one merely refreshed and the counter of glyph refreshes seems to remain unchanged. That, of course, may be intended behaviour, but it reduces the time one has to rebuild CP's for SR refresh and another FB under 25% target's health. It may also change the value of the glyph, as it is not doing anything for roughly 25% of the time.

Greece Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Druid: Balance PvE (updated for Cataclysm release) Hamlet Theorycrafting Think Tank 122 01/23/11 12:26 AM
[Feral-Bear] Cataclysm Release Hinalover Druids 209 01/13/11 5:03 PM
Fire Cataclysm Discussion: OP Updated for Release Tyrian Mages 710 12/06/10 2:27 PM
Resto Guide (updated for Cataclysm release) RobotChicken Druids 54 12/05/10 3:14 PM