[Feral-Cat] Cataclysm Release - Page 9

Rawf · 01/11/11, 3:35 PM

@Nelkanor
I just tested that and you're right, but you should easily be able to fit a FB in every 16 seconds, even if it's a low CP FB the Rip stays at it's full strength, so it's not really a problem unless you let Rip drop. Also, it's not counted as the same one because if you pop TF and then FB, the Rip will tick like a TF'd Rip not it's original Rip strength.

P.S. Can anyone answer this question. If you have a damage buff that only lasts 1 special, and you use it on a FB <25% so it refreshes Rip, will the damage buff buff also apply to the refreshed Rip? I'm assuming it doesn't but I can't seem to persuade myself it definitely doesn't... and if it does then that's awesome.

Robosaurus · 01/11/11, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by Kioga

I'm considering the chest,legs,shoulders, and gloves + [Tsanga's Helm].

TLDR Use Rawr and add ~196dps and ~504dps for PvP 2piece/4piece respectively.
Tsanga's Helm offset allows for +30agi bonus when using RG pairing, vs a resilience bonus and is thus I feel it is the best choice. The problem (and largely the big pro) of the PvP set is that the Vicious and Bloodthirsty bonuses are the same, and the actual dps gains between the two sets is a lot smaller. For comparison's sake, here is a table of their value using RSV.

	Agility	2.85773
	Strength	2.15917
	MasteryRating	1.21445
	Ap	1.02921
	CritRating	0.99227
	HasteRating	0.85209
	HitRating	0.7544
	ExpertiseRating	0.75364

Slot	Bloodthirsty	Vicious	Gain
Head	928.82	1079.99	151.17
Shoulders	799.83	886.50	86.67
Chest	987.20	1134.64	147.44
Gloves	806.89	909.20	102.30
Legs	972.65	1117.74	145.08

Really though, gearing your toons is not about obtaining the magic "BiS list" in one shot. If it were, you'd back-end most of your dps gain and hinder your ability to actually kill the bosses for loot. It's being able to maintain continuous upgrades through a good upgrade path.

A good initial choice is Vicious shoulders due to cheap Conquest point cost, as well as being a direct upgrade to all 346 shoulders without 2piece pvp. Shoulders are either Tier11 or [Poison Protocol Pauldrons], and if you want 4piece pve you aim for Head [Tsanga's Helm] or Chest offpiece [Sark of the Unwatched].

Robosaurus · 01/11/11, 5:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rawf

@Nelkanor
will the damage buff buff also apply to the refreshed Rip? I'm assuming it doesn't but I can't seem to persuade myself it definitely doesn't...

Starting with a 5cp Rip

RefreshMethod	Hit	Crit
Pre-Refresh	4961	10219
5Rip	4961	10219
1-5FB	4961	10219
1-5FB+TF	5702	11752

Starting with a 5cp+TF Rip

RefreshMethod	Hit	Crit
PreRefresh	5702	11752
5Rip	4961	10219
1-5FB	4961	10219
1-5FB+TF	5702	11752

I put on 4piece t7 to test the last one - you can't get exponentially increasing TF-ed Rips.

Amount of CP when refreshing Rip using Blood in the Water does not matter in regards to Rip damage. Using a TF+1cp FB gives Rip a +15% damage increase for the full duration.

Additional notes:
If you start with a 1cp rip, refreshing with 1-5cp FB places a new 1cp rip on the target, not full strength 5cp rip. Hence it is essential to always do 5cp Rip.

Rawf · 01/12/11, 1:47 AM

Perhaps I worded my question badly.

This is mainly thinking about Nefarian HM where there's a damage bonus that only applies to your next special, so you would usually use it on a Rip to get a heap of damage through it. But if the boss is <25% HP, can you FB with the extra damage and have the Rip get the extra damage bonus as well? That would be a huge bonus but it's not like TF that has a 10 second duration, it's a one time thing so I don't know.

I know most of you won't be able to answer this from experience with the fight so I thought I'd try and ask it differently. Obviously wasn't a good idea.

Furial · 01/12/11, 4:59 AM

While we're still on this <25% HP Rip topic, something occured to me. Can you use [Skardyn's Grace] at 25% and then refresh that empowered Rip with FB or will it fade as soon as you FB after the 20 second duration?

Nelkanor · 01/12/11, 5:15 AM

Originally Posted by Rawf

@Nelkanor
I just tested that and you're right, but you should easily be able to fit a FB in every 16 seconds, even if it's a low CP FB the Rip stays at it's full strength, so it's not really a problem unless you let Rip drop. Also, it's not counted as the same one because if you pop TF and then FB, the Rip will tick like a TF'd Rip not it's original Rip strength.

...

True, you can refresh Rip with only a 1 point FB and even buff it if a proc happens at that time. But, ideally, you want 70 energy, 5 CP FB's as much as possible and the additional 6 seconds from the glyph would go a long way towards that when target's health is under 25%. Also, please notice that I've stated that the Rip is treated as a refreshed one, with regards to the glyph.

The primary purpose of my post is to determine whether this is a bug or intended behaviour, as there is a discrepancy on how the Rip is viewed with regards to buffs/procs and the glyph. With regards to the buffs/procs, it is treated as a new one and takes the appropriate benefit. With regards to the glyph, it is treated as a refreshed one and does not make further use of it. A secondary purpose is to make it known to the nice people writing models and simulations, so they can take it into account, if it is not there already.

kalbear · 01/12/11, 11:21 AM

While we're still on this <25% HP Rip topic, something occured to me. Can you use [Skardyn's Grace] at 25% and then refresh that empowered Rip with FB or will it fade as soon as you FB after the 20 second duration?

I haven't tested that explicitly but similar behaviors (such as tiger's fury and other on-use trinkets and pots) go away as soon as you refresh the rip.

eXcel905 · 01/12/11, 1:04 PM

With the change to [Unheeded Warning]'s proc on the PTR (Your melee attacks have a chance to increase your weapon damage by 680 for 10 sec.) How does this rank with other trinkets now? Since several of our attacks are based on WPN dmg and WPN dmg being our # dps weight It seems like it would be a good competitor but where would this rank, would this beat out Essence of Cyclone + Fluid Death?

bonta · 01/14/11, 3:57 PM

Can someone clarify for me how Essence of the Cyclone work with our bleeds?

Say my crit chance is currently 30% and i apply a 5 point Rip, each tick should have a 30% to crit. What if the trinket procs while the bleeds are ticking? Does that mean my Rip will have the increased crit chance or is it still 30% until i reapply bleed with the trinket buff on?

Vorherrschaf · 01/14/11, 5:04 PM

Originally Posted by bonta

Can someone clarify for me how Essence of the Cyclone work with our bleeds?

Say my crit chance is currently 30% and i apply a 5 point Rip, each tick should have a 30% to crit. What if the trinket procs while the bleeds are ticking? Does that mean my Rip will have the increased crit chance or is it still 30% until i reapply bleed with the trinket buff on?

Unless this has changed in Cata, all bleed effects only take into account buffs you have when you apply them. For example, if your trinket procs before you apply rip, then you get the increased crit chance, but if it isn't up then the entire duration won't get buffed.

This is the opposite for debuffs like mangle. If mangle isn't up when rip is applied but is applied after, then the rip will deal extra damage.

spanctimony · 01/14/11, 7:27 PM

Anybody else use the PVP gloves (10 less energy/rage to skull bash) in 10m raids when you're required to interrupt?

I find it lets me ride the dps line pretty hard while still maintaining primary focus on the interrupt rotation.

The DPS gain isn't primarily from the 10 extra energy...the DPS gain comes from being able to be more aggressive in your rotation because of the huge decrease in time spent unable to skull bash. Remember, DPS is heavily affected by raid mechanics, so "number theory" is only so valid, and I strongly suspect that while the blue PVP gloves would do worse than the epic rep gloves in rawr (obviously), in real world on interrupting fights (obviously not in 25 man situations) they will come out ahead for all but the people who have flawless rotation.

Thoughts?

nastybuff · 01/15/11, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by Ínsane

some people reported [Unheeded Warning] to have changed on PTR to be a 680 Weapon damage proc with 10 seconds duration and 50 seconds cooldown , i was woundring if that will affect our trinket choice?

The tooltip infact is updated, the weapon damage increase is applied using cat form weapon speed resulting in almoust 680 added dps in character window BUT does not appliy on bleeds.

Wyzitt · 01/15/11, 5:13 PM

I am looking for clarification on proper TF -> Rip usage. Obviously refreshing rip with TF is a dps increase, but what if rip is 2 seconds from falling off and TF has a 5 second cooldown remaining?

Is it ever worth it to let rip fall off if TF is very close to being ready? Or is it a dps loss to miss one tick of rip, even if by missing that 1 tick, you get a 15% increased damage on the next rip?

Windchilla · 01/15/11, 6:49 PM

I'm currently in the camp of glyphing TF and only using Rip with TF active. This leads to missing a tick of Rip on occation, but based on what limited testing I've done it's an overall increase in DPS. The increase is slight and nullified if you miss more than a single tick.

Leafkiller · 01/15/11, 6:54 PM

Originally Posted by Wyzitt

I am looking for clarification on proper TF -> Rip usage. Obviously refreshing rip with TF is a dps increase, but what if rip is 2 seconds from falling off and TF has a 5 second cooldown remaining?

Is it ever worth it to let rip fall off if TF is very close to being ready? Or is it a dps loss to miss one tick of rip, even if by missing that 1 tick, you get a 15% increased damage on the next rip?

Several of us have tested this extensively in Mew. The short answer is do not wait to refresh Rip. If you want to see what the optimized logic looks like, take a look at either the default simulation script or the one I posted over on Fluiddruid.