[Balance] Cataclysm 4.3 (Dragon Soul) - Page 12

Ademaro · 01/31/12, 4:51 AM

Originally Posted by stuppp

Good day people.

On the Warmaster Blackhorn fight I stay in solar eclipse for the first phase of the fight cause of multidotting. Due to the way mastery works for us, its worth is halved cause we change out of eclipse. But since I have a much higher uptime on eclipse during this fight(from 70-80% roughly), doesnt that change the worth of mastery as it now applies to more of the spellcasts?

I am gathering mastery gear to test this out. Any opinions?

It all depends on what you are reforging out of but most of the time haste will outway mastery in almost all situations including on Warmaster Blackhorn. I would suggest adding a link to your armory and give us an idea of what you were planning on swapping.

Aside from my response to this I have a question for the new patch, does anyone know what the use of starsurge is atm? Are we using it on CD out of eclipse. Obviously hardcasting it outside of eclipse state seems to me would be a dumb idea however during a shooting star proc outside of eclipse on a fight like H-Ultrax would it be worth using the GCD and putting starsurge on CD for the 10 seconds

Here is a link to my armory so you have an idea of what my concerns are:
Aidmaro @ Korgath - Game - World of Warcraft

IMHO I still feel that during eclipse states is the only time starsurge should be used even with the new 4-piece bonus ...
Any thoughts? Additionally has wrathcalcs been updated in accordance to our new much needed buff

?

Slippykins · 01/31/12, 7:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ademaro

It all depends on what you are reforging out of but most of the time haste will outway mastery in almost all situations including on Warmaster Blackhorn. I would suggest adding a link to your armory and give us an idea of what you were planning on swapping.

Aside from my response to this I have a question for the new patch, does anyone know what the use of starsurge is atm? Are we using it on CD out of eclipse. Obviously hardcasting it outside of eclipse state seems to me would be a dumb idea however during a shooting star proc outside of eclipse on a fight like H-Ultrax would it be worth using the GCD and putting starsurge on CD for the 10 seconds

Here is a link to my armory so you have an idea of what my concerns are:
Aidmaro @ Korgath - Game - World of Warcraft

IMHO I still feel that during eclipse states is the only time starsurge should be used even with the new 4-piece bonus ...
Any thoughts? Additionally has wrathcalcs been updated in accordance to our new much needed buff

?

As far as I know, Starsurge should be used on cooldown - the only exception to this rule is when you are 1-2 casts away from your next eclipse, and then you'd delay casting it until you got into said eclipse. The only reason we didn't cast Starsurge outside of eclipse back in the T12 4pc days was because it had a much lower energy per execute time compared with wrath and starfire outside of eclipse.

And with the 4pc buffing Starsurge damage, it will have a higher DpET compared with starfire and wrath inside and outside of eclipse (since it's buffed by lunar and solar).

Ademaro · 01/31/12, 7:51 PM

Thanks slippykins good info, so even if we need to hardcast it outside of eclipse your saying to still cast SS>wrath?

Slippykins · 01/31/12, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ademaro

Thanks slippykins good info, so even if we need to hardcast it outside of eclipse your saying to still cast SS>wrath?

Yup! As long as you are at 83 or less energy (>2 wraths from Lunar) that would be the way to go. With the reduced cooldown, it's virtually guaranteed you'll get a Starsurge every Lunar/Solar eclipse.

Phaidon · 02/04/12, 5:56 AM

Copypasted from the Feral-DPS-Thread, I hope this is allowed as it is a questions to both specs:

As I expect my raid to kill Blackhorn HC during the next ID, we will be going for Spine 10man HC soon. I might or might not have a regular raid spot for that one, but if I do, i'm likely going to be in as DPS.
The situation is as follows: mainspec ist Resto (iLvl 393), usuall offspec is Moonkin (iLvl 390), possible offspec is Feral (iLvl 390ish). 4pc T12 as Moonkin, 2pc T12/2pc T13 as Feral, the better weapon with my Moonkin (410 Dagger, but 378 offhand from FL, still using the heroic fire kitty staff from FL as Feral). If necessary I can post more detailed information on my gear.
So, here's my questions: Which spec would you use for Spine? And as I have been sat for Ultraxion for our kill because we only needed 2 Healers and most of the others DDs surpass me in gear by some 10 iLvls, which spec from your experience performs better on Ultrax? I feel the phasing in and out really hurts my DPS as Moonkin, but have not yet had the chance to try it as Feral.
Thank you in advance.

Slippykins · 02/04/12, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by Phaidon

Copypasted from the Feral-DPS-Thread, I hope this is allowed as it is a questions to both specs:

As I expect my raid to kill Blackhorn HC during the next ID, we will be going for Spine 10man HC soon. I might or might not have a regular raid spot for that one, but if I do, i'm likely going to be in as DPS.
The situation is as follows: mainspec ist Resto (iLvl 393), usuall offspec is Moonkin (iLvl 390), possible offspec is Feral (iLvl 390ish). 4pc T12 as Moonkin, 2pc T12/2pc T13 as Feral, the better weapon with my Moonkin (410 Dagger, but 378 offhand from FL, still using the heroic fire kitty staff from FL as Feral). If necessary I can post more detailed information on my gear.
So, here's my questions: Which spec would you use for Spine? And as I have been sat for Ultraxion for our kill because we only needed 2 Healers and most of the others DDs surpass me in gear by some 10 iLvls, which spec from your experience performs better on Ultrax? I feel the phasing in and out really hurts my DPS as Moonkin, but have not yet had the chance to try it as Feral.
Thank you in advance.

I'd definitely go with Feral for Ultraxion, simply because they are better than Boomkins at single target, hands down. You pit a skilled Feral against a skilled Boomkin at the same gear level, and the Feral will always win single target fights.

For Spine, it really depends on your group comp. If you already have enough burst to get the Tendon down without you (we don't have the best burst out of everyone), then go with Boomkin. If you don't, it'd probably be better to be Feral just so you can burst the Tendon down efficiently. With the Tendon health nerf last week, bursting might not be much of an issue anymore.

Viryz · 02/04/12, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by Slippykins

I'd definitely go with Feral for Ultraxion, simply because they are better than Boomkins at single target, hands down.

I hope you do know, you can't shred Ultraxion unless they changed it just recently, why would you go with a feral over boomkin?

♦ Tecton · 02/04/12, 7:28 PM

Originally Posted by Viryz

I hope you do know, you can't shred Ultraxion unless they changed it just recently, why would you go with a feral over boomkin?

Because unless you have Dragonwrath or your raid is relying on your buffs/debuffs, Feral will still output better DPS at similar gear levels.

gannonjf · 02/06/12, 8:50 PM

How bout on Madness and getting spell weaving to proc? I haven't tried it yet but it would seem hurricane would actually be better then mushrooms as AOE for this fight only because of the nature of spell weaving? 3 mushrooms is pretty much all you get for any of the blood/tent AOE phases so only 3 chances to proc if I am reading it correctly? Anyone able to throw some input in here?

Lymited · 02/07/12, 1:08 AM

For heroic madness, the only point in the fight to consider using hurricane is for phase 2 since the congealing bloods die too fast to really make any dots worth it after wild mushrooms, and glyphed hurricane brings a nice slow so they don't heal Deathwing.

Mushrooms should still be used before hurricane though. Mushroom where congealing bloods spawn, and then place hurricane. Very similar to heroic cho'gall bloods.

stuppp · 02/12/12, 5:38 AM

What is peoples opinion on the 4p t13 set vs 4p t12? I recently swapped to t13 and I feel unsatisfied by it. Currently i am concidering going back to t12. Any math done as to how much it affects us in either a AOE or Singel target fight?

Slippykins · 02/12/12, 2:44 PM

Just comparing the two sets, 4pc T12 > 4pc T13, without a doubt. 4pc T13 is still a bit lackluster, and the only reason we upgrade to a full set of T13 is because of the stats to beat out 4pc T12.

Since the 4.3.2 patch, I believe it's now ok to upgrade from 4pc T12H to 4pc T13, as the latter is a little better. You'll notice a bigger difference once you start getting into 4pc T13H.

stuppp · 02/12/12, 6:07 PM

Even though the stats are better, it kinda feels grose to use it. Might be because I have been using the t12 for so long that I have gotten use to go between eclipses like a blast. I am thinking about going back into t12 heroic instead. I dont have much hope for clearing DS heroic anyhow(kinda slow progressing guild).

For how long would it be acceptable(dps vise) to stil be using t12?

Slippykins · 02/13/12, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by stuppp

Even though the stats are better, it kinda feels grose to use it. Might be because I have been using the t12 for so long that I have gotten use to go between eclipses like a blast. I am thinking about going back into t12 heroic instead. I dont have much hope for clearing DS heroic anyhow(kinda slow progressing guild).

For how long would it be acceptable(dps vise) to stil be using t12?

It'd probably be acceptable if you had 4 pieces of T12H, and then your off-piece being the T13 pants. If you can't manage that, you would be significantly hampering your DPS.

Looking at your armory, I'd say stick with your T13. Only thing you could improve would be getting the boomkin T13 shoulders + resto T13 chest (better optimisation).

Thedave · 02/15/12, 4:55 PM

It's pretty dangerous and borderline misleading to talk so much about whether we should, as a blanket proclamation, advise 4pc T12 over 4pc T13. For many of these fights, you want to hold your spot on the eclipse bar or make the most out of your eclipse, which renders the T12 bonus borderline useless.

Take H-Blackhorn and H-Spine as examples. On the former, you want to hold Solar for all of P1, and your dot damage is critical. On the latter, you want to hold just-before-solar when you're 30s (or less) away from the tendon burn, and your damage in that following eclipse is what matters the most. In both cases, 4pc T12 is vastly inferior to 4pc T13, despite Patchwerk sim numbers.

In fact, I can only really think of 2 heroic fights where the T12 setbonus could approach that Patchwerk sim: the easiest fight in the instance (Morchok) and the one Patchwerk-like fight of the tier (Ultra) - which also happens to be the second-easiest. Advising players to hold that set bonus when the only two fights it even comes close to the sims are the two easiest of the entire tier seems... unwise.