Above questions:
1) You can get double NG DoT's that way, but it tends not to be worth the extra GCD.
2) on explosion.

Also, there's another way you can get double NG DoT's--just mentioning it since I've heard some people wondering about Glyph of Starfire lately. If you MF, IS, SF at the beginning of an Eclipse, the SF will extend the MF and also apply NG to it. But ~11s later when NG ends, you'll still be in pre-Solar, and the next SF will cause the MF to lose NG for the remainder of its 27s duration. Still, something good to know. Also, might be worth rechecking all this on live since it's been a while.

-----

To fix in OP:
--FoN affected by spell hit.
--4T11 advanced notes are out of dates since it's been nerfed.

Also @Zenigen - you should RARELY be speccing Lunar Shower - it's generally considered a DPS loss for any fights with multi-dotting.

Someone pointed out that he could achieve higher dps with heroic boots rather than the VP ones with some strange reforge. I can confirm it, the strange reforge is spirit -> haste on boots instead of reforging away the crit rating.

Without DI you can go for the 3101 Haste breakpoint
If you manage to get another Girdle of the Grotesque, since we sit at 3026 haste we can swap 3 red gems in the belt for 3 orange to reach the 3101 haste breakpoint without DI

Wrathcalc gives me 50090.98 DPS (Night Elf) with DI in full Heroic BiS, Epic Gems and Dragonwrath
Using boots from VP and crafted bracers (I've manually added the +20int bonus to the bracers since it's clearly a bug and is gonna be fixed)

If you always have DI you can choose the Treads of Sordid Screams(heroic) and with some reforging achieve 37693,92 DPS (Night Elf) with DI in full Heroic BiS, Epic Gems and Dragonwrath
Using the crafted bracers (I've manually added the +20int bonus to the bracers since it's clearly a bug and is gonna be fixed)

Edit:
Maybe something is wrong in WC: in full BiS I always get a dps loss for using Glyph of Starsurge over any other glyph with any combination of Starfall...

Edit2:
I need to know for sure if the VP boots are BiS or not, because I don't want to waste an orange and a red epic gems :S

Based on just raw number conversion, offset Resto chest is a small DPS increase from having offset Resto shoulders. Can anyone double check this for me? It was basically a ~9 DPS increase to have the chest instead of shoulders.

Can you clarify the setup you are using to achieve this figure?

[edit] Actually, I think this might be with Glyph of Insect Swarm and using Starfall every Lunar, which obviously doesn't work since it won't be off cooldown without 4t13 and GoSS. Even with those options, it's possible/probable we won't be able to actually pull off getting a Starfall in every cycle. [/edit]

It's certainly showing as more DPS in any gear setups I've found, but I don't think there is a concensus on what is 100% BiS yet.

I use TellMeWhen to build a couple bars that contain all my most pertinent cooldowns/buffs and put it right next to my eclipse bar. One has (target)IS, (target)MF, (target)SF, Shooting Stars proc, Starsuge cooldown, FoN cooldown, Starfall cooldown. The other has all the temporary buffs so I can at-a-glance see how powerful my dot refreshes will be -- Nature's Grace, Bloodlust, and all my gear procs.

The profile I'm actually using as BiS is:
Deep Earth Cover (Heroic) 126 spirit -> mastery
Petrified Fungal Heart (Heroic) 81 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Mantle (Heroic) 99 spirit -> haste
Woundlicker Cover 73 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Vestment (Heroic) 143 mastery -> haste
Mycosynth Wristguards (Heroic) 81 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Gloves (Heroic) -> enchanted with 50 haste, no reforge
Girdle of the Grotesque (Heroic) 96 spirit -> haste
Deep Earth Leggings (Heroic)
Treads of Sordid Screams (Heroic) 102 spirit -> haste, enchanted with 50 haste
Ring of the Riven (Heroic)
Signet of Suturing (Heroic)
Insignia of the Corrupted Mind (Heroic)
Will of Unbinding (Heroic)
Dragonwrath Tarecgosa's Rest 125 hit -> mastery
Mindbender Lens 31 crit -> mastery

2 points in Blessing of the Grove, DI enabled with 90% uptime, no Focus Magic, all epic gems fitting socket color
IS: Once each Eclipse
MF: Once each Eclipse
Starfall: During Lunar, 1 Target
Starsurge: Always

Class Night Elf, Professions Alchemy and Jewelcrafting
This nets me
50407,07 DPS
2806 Haste
2023 Mastery
5 points over hit cap


The profile I'm using for the 3101 breakpoint is:
Deep Earth Cover (Heroic) 126 spirit -> mastery
Petrified Fungal Heart (Heroic) 81 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Mantle (Heroic) 99 spirit -> haste
Woundlicker Cover
Deep Earth Vestment (Heroic) 143 mastery -> haste
Bracers of Flowing Serenity 66 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Gloves (Heroic) -> enchanted with 50 haste, no reforge
Girdle of the Grotesque (Heroic) 96 spirit -> haste
Deep Earth Leggings (Heroic)
Boots of Fungoid Growth 86 spirit -> mastery, enchanted with 50 haste
Ring of the Riven (Heroic)
Signet of Suturing (Heroic) 67 spirit -> 67 mastery
Insignia of the Corrupted Mind (Heroic)
Will of Unbinding (Heroic)
Dragonwrath Tarecgosa's Rest 125 hit -> mastery
Mindbender Lens 31 crit -> spirit

2 points in Blessing of the Grove, DI enabled with 90% uptime, no Focus Magic, all epic gems fitting socket color except for belt that has 3 orange reckless
IS: Once each Eclipse
MF: Once each Eclipse
Starfall: During Lunar, 1 Target
Starsurge: Always

Class Night Elf, Professions Alchemy and Jewelcrafting
This nets me
49995,77 DPS
3101 Haste
1959 Mastery
3 points under hit cap

I don't know which one i should choose..the second one gives me a little less dps, but i can achieve the 3101 breakpoint when i don't have Dark Intent
That's the reason i don't know if I should socket the VP boots with the first epic gems i have looted or not

Has anyone been using RAWR to optimize their gear? I've noticed it lately seeming to move quite a bit of reforging over into Crit rather than Haste or Mastery and wondered if I should trust it or not. When it suggested reforging haste into crit, I was getting a bit leery of following on with it's recommendations.

Also, has anyone been using Will of Unbinding (384)? I'm trying to decide if the int proc is worth replacing the 384 Charged Capacitor trink in conjunction with Insignia (384), that haste proc on Insignia just seems to good to pass up.

Are you using Glyph of Insect Swarm at the same time as Starfall in Lunar only? Because without GoSS, you have to have Starfall on CD, as the cycle is too short to get Starfall every time otherwise. That looks to be inflating your figures.

**4.3.2 note: With the 4.3.2 PTR changes, WrathCalcs has spat out a few different numbers, I don't know whether it's due to the tier 4-set bonus changing, or something else, but the gear has been modified for the non-DI set. Namely, both sets now have the same gear, with a few nuances in gemming, but all else is the same... except DI.


----------------------------------------------------------

I had to tweak my DI build a little bit as I couldn't get the reforging done as well as I'd liked. On the shoulders and boots I reforged Spirit -> Mastery over Crit, as there was way too much spirit as a whole.

T13H BiS w/ DI build: 51675 DPS

Profiler - Wowhead


T13H BiS w/o DI build: 49424 DPS

Profiler - Wowhead


I'm trying to post this around to see if others can correct me on anything. I have done a multitude of tests on either spec, and I'll try to list them in case anyone thinks of them. I'll also update the list as I test more stuff.


DI build:

Reaching 3782 Haste breakpoint is a DPS loss.
Swapping [Treads of Sordid Screams] with [Boots of Fungoid Growth] is a DPS loss.
Swapping [Girdle of the Grotesque] with [Belt of Universal Curing] is a DPS loss.
Swapping [Mycosynth Wristguards] with [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] is a DPS loss.
Any combination of the above 3 items is a compounding DPS loss.
Swapping [Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest] with any Deathwing weapon is a DPS loss.
Inconclusive whether [Cunning of the Cruel] will be better on AoE-heavy fights.
50 Haste to gloves is a 58 DPS increase over 65 Mastery.
**new: With a new reforging method, 1742 hit is achieved. Haste sits at 3000, and DPS has increased significantly. Glyph of Rebirth has been changed to Glyph of Focus, due to the Dragon Soul fights favouring Focus.

non-DI build:

Reaching 3101 Haste breakpoint is a DPS gain.
Swapping [Girdle of the Grotesque] with [Belt of Universal Curing] is a DPS loss.
Swapping [Mycosynth Wristguards] with [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] is a DPS loss.
Swapping [Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest] with any Deathwing weapon is a DPS loss.
Inconclusive whether [Cunning of the Cruel] will be better on AoE-heavy fights.
**new: Swapping [Treads of Sordid Screams] with [Boots of Fungoid Growth] is a DPS loss. This change will only be valid once the 4.3.2 tier changes go live. More information at: The Moonkin Repository • View topic - Gearing in 4.3
**new: After attempting to find a better reforging method, the current one seems to stand as the best, with 15 hit over the cap. I can get the cap down to around 6 over the cap, however this sacrifices a little bit of haste and proves to be a DPS loss. No better reforging method has been found (yet).

Are you sure that [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] are lower dps than [Mycosynth Wristguards] with full epic gems in the sockets?

I see that your profiles use Brilliant inferno rubies, but since [Bracers of Flowing Serenity] has one more slot, epic gemming favor them.

They seem really close in value to me once gemmed with [Brilliant Queen's Garnet], and easily superior if you need the haste for the non-DI build

I just received my 4P bonus and it sims as a DPS loss over 2T12/2T13 by a very, very, very small margin (within the standard deviaton). Is 4P really worth absolutely nothing besides stat gain?

Just curious what you guys are doing on Madness for killing bloods. My guild is killing Green -> Red -> Blue -> Yellow and we're having trouble burning the bloods down without the 20% buff. When they spawn we finish the Blistering Tentacles and then let the bloods full heal before we start on them. I'm in solar and put down mushrooms as the tank groups them and then burst followed by hurricane. Worth Sunfiring them or no?

Here's the damage taken from all our attempts - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Any suggestions other than leaving Blue buff up the longest?

Ive heard of doing red last but never yellow last. What is the reasoning for that? It seems almost nonsensical.

Our 4pc T13 is shocking. The best upgrade you can make, transition-wise, would be 4pc T12H to 4pc T13H. The only reason we get T13 4pc is for the stat upgrade, as you said. Also, what seems to be the best with 4pc is swapping Glyph of IS for Glyph of Starsurge, allowing us to get in a Starfall each Lunar eclipse.

We had big issues with killing bloods when we didn't leave Blue up the whole time. We managed to get them down with some heavy-AoE specs (feral kitty, hunter), and eventually got them down - then died to Cataclysm. Our platform order ended up being Green -> Red -> Yellow -> Blue. We wiped 4 times tonight, did a flawless 5th attempt and got him down easily. You have to remember the 20% damage buff isn't what really matters with the Blue buff, it's Spell Weaving, which does a huge amount of AoE damage to the bloods. We also prioritised the Blistering Tentacles, so some bloods ended up full healing, but that's not a big deal.

It's not really worth Sunfiring them I find. I do mushrooms, explode and then by the time I try to cast Hurricane the bloods are already dead. Otherwise, if you're doing that and they aren't dying it's not your fault.

Looking at your logs, since Wild Mushrooms are the biggest damage on the bloods (besides Spell Weaving), you're doing perfectly fine. Since the AoE damage from other people is comparatively lower, you might wanna consider leaving Blue up last. The Bolt is definitely survivable and heal-throughable if there's a raid wall up for when it hits.

Well, I simmed 2P T13 as a DPS upgrade by about 300 DPS so I swapped. What is the DPS increase from having Starsurge Glyph given that we would only average 6 Starsurge a minute?

It sims at a 500 DPS loss.

How come when other classes look at their 2P or 4P, they go "Oh my god! That looks so good!" Balance look at their tier and have a negative reaction to what they see. Again, simming as one of the lowest DPS classes. I don't understand how Blizzard constantly overlooks us. (Mages go from Arcane top, to Fire top, Balance goes from like 6th worst, to 3rd worst.)

Regarding the bloods on Madness, I did some testing with the Spell Weaving proc (20k splash damage), and you shouldn't use Hurricane since it doesn't proc it.

Starfall will, as well as Mushrooms(basically doubling the explosion), and once that is done you can spamm Moonfire/Sunfire on the bloods to get spell weaving proc until they are dead (seems to proc on DoT as well as direct damage).


On a sidenote, Mind sear seems to provide a lot of Spell Weaving procs, so if you have trouble killing the bloods, ask your disc/holy priest to help!
Also, resto druids will get a nice Mushroom explosion as well.

What are you upgrading your 2p T13 from? When I do my WrathCalcing I'm upgrading 4pc T12 heroic (391s) to 4pc T13 normal (397s). The extra stats are marginal, but it would be interesting to see if 2pc T12H + 2pc T13 would be better.

I just tested a couple of scenarios. My base gear for this is T12H helm, chest, gloves, legs and T13 resto shoulders (31678 DPS).

Helm + Shoulders to T13 boomkin: 31098 DPS (580 DPS loss)
Helm + Chest to T13 boomkin: 31151 DPS (527 DPS loss)
Helm + Gloves to T13 boomkin: 31231 DPS (447 DPS loss)
Helm + Legs to T13 boomkin: 31493 DPS (185 DPS loss)

Considering it wont be very attainable for most to get the heroic T12 hat from Ragnaros, all other sims with pieces except the helm will sim lower because of the hat being 378. Helm + Legs looks like the best option, as the legs are Haste/Mastery and gets rid of that yuck Spirit/Crit T12 legs. Resto Shoulders are also Spirit/Mastery, but much better than the Crit boomkin option.

All in all, it's not that big of a loss (185 DPS), so it's really up to the boomkin whether they want to have 2pc T12H and 2pc T13 or 4pc T12H.


You have to make sure with Glyph of Starsurge you're setting up WrathCalcs correctly. If you're using MF/IS/Wrath Glyphs, you have to set "Starfall: On Cooldown", otherwise WrathCalcs will report inflated figures. Only if you're sporting Glyph of Starsurge and 4pc T13 can you set "Starfall: During Lunar", as Starfall should be available for each Lunar eclipse at that point. Using my BiS setup with DI, DPS with IS/MF/Wrath and "Starfall: On Cooldown" DPS shows as 50336. Swapping IS for Starsurge, and setting "Starfall: During Lunar" DPS jumps up to 50584. Really, this isn't that much of an increase, but it's still an increase. In-game, the Starsurge setup may be a little bit lower due to bloodlust pushing us faster than the CD, and we may not be able to line it up exactly all the time. The Wrath glyph is a static 10% damage increase, and basically will always do the maximum it can.

Unfortunately, our 4pc T13 is lackluster, like you said, and it'll be very hard for us to stay competitive in the top rankings once everyone else has their 4pc. Hopefully Blizzard does rectify our 4pc, but I doubt it.

I'm confused as to why your healer is close enough to the meteor impact to take significant damage from it. You can easily reach the tank from all the way across the platform.

Yeah, was our first real night of attempts and I think we were overestimating the damage the meteor would do if he was close enough to still be in range of the tank - like I said, though, we'll probably just faceroll it with blue up from now on anyways.

I was using simulationcraft. I have it set to Starfall only during Lunar, but not with DI buff. I had 2P T12 HGlove, NHelm, and 3P T13 NChest, NShoulders, LFRLeggings. I upped it to T13 NGloves for 4P and it was a very marginal DPS loss (3 DPS). I swap in Glyph of SS and it's a large DPS loss (500 DPS).

I would like to hear some people's ideas on how to make Balance more competitive. We have pretty much static DPS, with no amazing DPS CDs (like Demo opener or Mage opener or Hunter opener) and we have no execute. Unless they literally want to buff our static damage so that we're competitive, we need some burst CDs or an execute (probably both given that all classes I just listed have both). When the original T13 was the double eclipse Energy, I think I suggested SS count as always Eclipsed but I don't know how much of a DPS increase that would have been.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think we will be seeing any CDs of that sort until MoP, and even then that's subject to change. As far as what we have to go on now, we've got Incarnation, 30 seconds of double eclipse and half the time out of eclipse, and Celestial Alignment, which may or may not be a DPS CD. Incarnation will definitely be saved for a Bloodlust, so we have something to pop there other than a pot, and Celestial Alignment could be used at the end of that Incarnation to continue a faux eclipse throughout the duration of Bloodlust. However, from what we can gauge on the tooltip of CA, it seems as if it's rather unfinished - we don't know if we'll get both Moonfire and Sunfire simultaneously, or whether it even benefits from Mastery, since the tooltip specifically states 25% extra damage (there's other concerns, I just woke up though). If this is the case, it's rather lackluster and may not be as useful as we would have hoped. Also have to remember we'll be getting Symbiosis, and there's a good chance it will be highly beneficial to us (as long as you have the right raid comp :p).